AIR Webinar: What Audio Producers Really Need to Know About Video Podcasting

Jeff Umbro: Hey folks, Jeff Umbo here. I am really excited to share a new panel episode with y'all today. This was recorded on May 1st with AIR, the Association of Independence in Radio, and the session was all about what audio producers really need to know about video podcasting. We had an all-star lineup here. It was moderated by Chris Boniello, Podglomerate’s VP of Production services.

Chris is an Emmy, Webby, and a Signal award-winning podcast producer and video editor with over 14 years of production experience leading commercial video campaigns with folks like Nike, Coca-Cola, Mercedes-Benz, Vice, Comedy Central, Paramount, Spotify, ESPN, and Saturday Night Live. So he knows a lot about video and is slumming it in the podcast trenches with us.

So it's very cool to have him moderating this panel to see about how the world of podcasting is trying to integrate into video and what that really means. So for the panelists on this conversation, we had Yih Lee, who is a senior partner manager at Spotify, where you know that they have been digging into video quite a bit lately.

We had Chris Colbert, who is the founder, and CEO of DCP Entertainment, who is also a previous guest on this show. So you can listen to his episode on this feed for podcast perspectives to learn more about what he is up to. And Hayley Rose Danick, who is a creator, growth strategist, who specializes in helping video creators and brands maximize their presence on YouTube.

She worked at YouTube for a long time and has worked with the Podglomerate to figure out what our strategy will be in the space. So we have people who represent creators, editors. The business side of video podcasting, and then specialists from YouTube and Spotify, which are the two biggest players in the space at this moment in time.

This panel is really, really amazing and touches on should you make the leap to video, why video podcasting matters and essential tips and tactics. So check it out. Again, this aired on May 1st with air, and if you didn't know, the Association of Independence and Radio or AIR for short is a professional association dedicated to supporting independent creators in the audio industry.

AIR is a creative community that spans the United States and dozens of countries worldwide, made up of journalists, podcasters, story editors, audio producers, documentarians, engineers, sound engineers, and media entrepreneurs. AIR members receive mentorship, training, and peer support throughout their careers, plus discounts on industry tools, conferences, and training on Sound Path, a digital platform where you can grow your career.

So if you're looking to level up your career in audio, join the AIR community at airmedia.org/join. So without further ado, let's get to the panel. Thank you to AIR and to Chris, Yih, Haley and other Chris, for putting this all together and I hope y’all enjoy.

Erin McGregor: Hello. Hello everybody. Welcome so many of you joining us right at the top of the hour. Welcome, uh, this is what audio producers need to know about video, um, presented on Sound Path with the Podglomerate and the Association of Independence and Radio. My name is Erin McGregor. I will be in the chat today with my colleague Casper from AIR.

Uh, today's presentation is recorded and will be made available on Sound Path within a day or two of today's presentation. Uh, we're gonna start today's conversation, uh, with a moderated conversation, and then we will transition into a q and a, uh, sometime around the 40 minute mark. Please drop your name and location in the chat so we can welcome you.

If you're an AIR member, please drop your favorite emoji so we can welcome you. Um, also I want to let you know that, um, we're gonna be using the q and a feature today to capture your questions. Please do not put your questions in the chat. They're gonna get lost there and we wanna make sure that we capture them.

So please use the q and a feature. We'll remind you in the chat also. And then if you are, um, chatting with other folks today, you are gonna wanna set, uh, your settings to everyone and not just host and panelists so that way everyone in the room can, can get your messages. Okay? Let's get started. I'm gonna take a minute to introduce our moderator, Chris Boniello.

He's an Emmy, Webby, and Signal award-winning podcast producer and video editor with over 14 years of production experience leading commercial video campaigns, TV series, and narrative audio. He's the VP of production services at the podglomerate here to moderate what audio producers really need to know about video.

Welcome Chris.

Chris Boniello: Thank you. Thank you very much. Erin. Welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us. Thank you to Aaron for hosting this panel. Video Podcasting is probably one of the hottest topics of 2025, so I'm really excited to dive into it with a great group of guests here. As Erin said, I'm Chris Boniello, the VP of Production Services at the Podglomerate and the Podglomerate is an award-winning podcast services company that produces markets and monetizes audio content.

And we represent over 70 podcasts with more than 30 million monthly downloads. And our clients include Netflix, Harvard, History Channel, Lifetime, and NPR, PBS, the Progress Network, and many more. Feel free to check out our website and take a look through our blog, which is full of resources about production, and we'll also add.

Our links into the chat and for today's conversation, we have a great panel to go through what audio producers really need to know about video podcasting. So with me today are Yih Lee, who is the senior partner manager at Spotify, where he partners with major US media publishers to expand their audiences and experiment with some cutting edge products.

Hayley Rose Danick, who is a creator growth specialist, and she specializes in helping video creators and brands maximize their YouTube presence through her company, which is The Upload Club. And then Chris Colbert, who you could also say Colbert if you really want to, because that's the vibe now. He is the CEO and founder of DCP Entertainment, which specializes in producing audio and video content to elevate underrepresented communities and voices, as well as being a podcast creator himself.

So today we're gonna look at video podcasts across various platforms like Spotify and YouTube to see what a creator or producer should know, what they should invest in, what kind of data they should look at, and if they're willing to make this jump into video production, what they're gonna need to know.

So to start this off, a little bit of a big question, but to Yih I had a question about Spotify. They've been rolling out more capabilities for podcasters over the past few months, and could you go into what those entail and why Spotify has chosen now to invest more in video podcasting?

Yih Lee: Yeah, Chris, uh, thanks for, uh, having me here first of all, um, I'll take the second question first, 'cause, uh, I wanna talk about the why.

Um, as a platform, we really try to listen to two key voices. Um, that's our users and our creators. Um, really not our own ego. We wanna listen to them and they've been pretty clear in the past few years about what they want with one voice. They've essentially said, we want more video on Spotify. So we, we've had video for several years now.

I wanna say five or six, uh, give or take, but our recent investments are, are really direct response to those signals and, and those voices. Uh, the, the biggest step was the launch of our Spotify partner program. This is really exciting 'cause it opens up a, a new revenue stream for creators who choose to publish a video.

So there's a lot of seasonality with ads, there's a lot of, um, complexities with ad market and, and this doesn't displace that, but this just adds another stream in their, um, in their revenue. Uh. On top of that, when we think about the consumer app for the users, we want to make it as much of a video friendly experience as possible.

So for us, our investments are about how to showcase that, uh, content we talk about in podcasting. How do you do discovery all the time? Uh, it's something that if you've been podcasting for 10, 15, 20 years, it's something that's probably, if not the first or second thing you think about. And what we've discovered videos, if there's just more to play with, there's more, um, context you can provide.

Uh, whether it's thumbnails or, or short form clips or, or copy that really highlights. It's, uh, it's a video. So those are just the peak in, into some of the investments we're working on.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. Thank you. And on that discoverability side, we've also seen, it's really interesting what you can expand out on video.

And so to Hailey, to you, I'm wondering what, what do you consider a successful video podcast on YouTube now that that is such a big discoverability engine for people? What's a benchmark metric people could aim for? Do you have any favorite examples of, of a really successful launch for a video podcast on YouTube?

Hayley Rose Danick: Yes, I do. I actually, I wrote down a little bit of a, a list, um, because I wanted to be concise about this. Um, so yeah, I, uh, I don't know if there's other people out there that consume a lot of YouTube, but that's always kind of a helpful place to start just in terms of getting familiar with the platform.

Um. There are, if you spend a bit of time just within the podcast tab, which is interesting, that exists today. Now there's a dedicated tab to podcast content. You'll see so many different kinds of podcasts. Um, I listened to different stuff on different days, um, and I would, but I would say kind of from my own personal preference, uh, the podcast that I love, that I think are doing a really good job.

Um, there's Mythical Kitchen who, um, has been around for a while. I think that he does a really incredible job with his packaging, and packaging is gonna come up a lot with me today. You're gonna hear me talk about packaging on YouTube, and that means the thumbnail title in first few seconds of the video.

Um, I. Uh, I'm kind of back and forth with call Daddy. Uh, they actually just updated a lot of their thumbnails, so I thought it would be a good, uh, example to surface. Um, I listen to Diary of A-C-E-O-A lot, um, and these are all big, massive podcasts like that have huge followings. Um, there are some other podcasts that are worth calling out that are doing a great job on YouTube that are not that big, like Amelia Denberg.

She's kind of in the middle range. Um, and then would love to call out Spikes Car radio if anyone's a car enthusiast out there. Um, run by a script writer from Seinfeld. Um, Jerry Seinfeld makes an appearance a lot, but they just brought their YouTube podcast, so they're podcast onto YouTube and they've done just an incredible job formulating the, and translating their content, uh, from audio into video.

Um, so I just wanted to be sure I called that one out. They're not huge yet on YouTube, but they're in that kind of emerging phase and doing a great job.

Chris Boniello: That's awesome. I am a CAR podcast consumer, so I'm well versed in some of the quirks and features of car podcasting world. And on the production side of things, Chris, I've looked through DCP entertainment's, YouTube, and you've got some shorts up there with millions of views.

You've got full podcast episodes with hundreds of thousands of views. So what kind of changes did you make on the production side of things? Not just for YouTube or Spotify specifically, but when you were moving into this video space from. Audio content to really have these

Chris Colbert: sort of success stories? Well, I'll be honest, we actually, were always doing video since the inception of our company back in 2018.

But I think we've definitely gotten a lot smarter. Uh, we used to spend way too much money and now we're, you know, being a lot more cost effective with it, which I'm sure we'll get into later. But I think, you know, being intentional about how we're using shorts to lead generate back to full video, because shorts obviously has been more of a, a newer, you know, kind of evolution in the YouTube space.

So, you know, using three or four different shorts that capture people's attention, those tend to get the most kind of uses, you said will sometimes get millions there and then that now, you know, takes them from that into that full length piece of piece of content to see more of it or see more of that conversation or that individual.

So we've now gotten really intentional about how we use our marketing funnel to take you from those shorts or even on social media into the actual full content. And that is through calls to action there, you know, whether it be in the caption to say, Hey, there's a full video that exists. Because I think sometimes we assume that the audience already knows that, oh, this came from a podcast, lemme go find more of it.

No, you need to tell them whether it's an end screen or something in the description, or using those things like recommended video on your shorts to then take you directly when you click that link into the full video. So, you know, just from, you know, the, the earliest standpoints of how you can use YouTube specifically, you know, it's using those shorts, using the recommended buy and then, you know, lead generating that back to the full video.

And that's really had us take off. Um, the other thing I'd mentioned too is that we've realized the topics that work best for us on social media, I'm sorry, that work best on YouTube, which is comedy and music. Things that are generating towards those kind of conversations or featuring. Artists or comedians work really well.

'cause if you think about your own use of YouTube, a lot of times you're looking for songs or you're looking for a comedy bit and then you end up discovering your favorite comedian or artist talking about their work. So, you know, we've actually really leaned into those kind of projects when we're focusing on YouTube because that's where we tend to get our most views.

Great.

Chris Boniello: And in that world of packaging and using those extra tools and features, I was wondering, Yi, is there anything coming up or with these features at, at Spotify that we should be looking at similar to what people are engaging with at YouTube right now?

Yih Lee: It's really funny that Chris c, you know, you kept bringing up, um, uh, the, the, the shorts on the YouTube side and how that, um, it's part of your long form world.

We're doing the same thing, I think. I think when, when several companies are doing the same thing and something to pay attention to. Um, on our side, I think we have a unique advantage because there's so much, um, I. Loyalty and retention for Spotify. Like you go to Spotify for a bunch of things, obviously music and now audio books, and there's podcasts.

So it becomes a, a one stop shop. And then what we're hoping with our, our clips, essentially also short form, uh, vertical video. What that will do is actually eliminate a lot of that friction. So if you are discovering something on one of the other social platforms, TikTok or Instagram, but your listening habits for your long form podcasts on Spotify, there is friction there to, to jump between apps.

You might as well just keep scrolling. Uh, what we are hoping to do on the Spotify side is that when you discover something, uh, from us, whether it's a a horizontal preview or vertical clip, is that you can do exactly what, what Krista said. You can go directly to that podcast, that episode that you already had saved in your library, or you can save it for later.

Chris Boniello: That's great. And throwing this back to you, Chris, this might be a little too broad of a question, but I was interested in your comment about going from, you know, scaling things down, figuring out what works best at the price points. Is there something you found as your essential entry equipment for a video podcast coming from, you know, someone who's creating something, just audio only at home, and how they can break into this without.

Going too crazy or spending too much money and make, and making a mistake and going backwards.

Chris Colbert: Yeah, I'd say especially for those who have a really, really tight budget, um, or just really stepping into it, I think those, you know, remote recording, um, platforms like a Riverside or a squad cast or super helpful, even if you do happen to be in the same city as your guest, but like, you know, maybe you don't have a bunch of, you know, money for cameras.

Okay. You know, someone has their own webcam. You have your own webcam and so you can record that way. And then the beauty of these, these platforms, now both of them, whether it's squad cast and their integration with the script or whether it be, you know, Riverside and their on on board platform, where after you're done recording you can actually do the editing right there.

And you don't have to be a, an expert in video editing or even audio editing 'cause they have a lot of tools that allow you to use the text to be able to make those edits and actually be able to add in graphics and things like that where you might in the past have spent a. Hundreds, thousands usually of dollars to be able to do each episode.

And now this cuts 2000, $3,000 off your cost. Um, the other great thing with those is that it'll help you identify those, you know, those shorts that we were just talking about, whether it be for Spotify or for YouTube or social media. And it'll help you cut those and create them in engaging ways. Um, and so like, yeah, I feel like that's probably the main entry point for folks just looking to step into video.

Whether your guest is in your location, you might wanna look at using a Riverside or a squad cast to help you record that so that the backend editing is a lot easier and cheaper for yourself.

Chris Boniello: Great. And I saw a question down in the q and a about shorts and what is a short, and I was wondering, since that's a term that's more YouTube specific, but it does kind of clip out to other platforms, Hey League, would you mind jumping in and, and explaining what a short is and why it's, why it's useful and, and how you can even access, you know, your audience through packaging of a short and beyond that.

Hayley Rose Danick: Yeah, I'd love to. Um, I love shorts. I kind of obsessive them. That was my, the first thing I worked on at YouTube. Um, so I know them well. Uh, yeah, a short is defined on YouTube. Um, initially it was just a, a video that is vertical, so not horizontal, but vertically filmed. Um, originally it was defined by a video that was zero to 60 seconds.

They actually send that to three minutes pretty recently. So you can now upload a vertical video. That's under three minutes, and it would be considered a short, which means that it's actually surfaced to the viewer in a very different way than long form. So in YouTube it's really important to understand, uh, the differences in consumption in terms of behavior with shorts content and long form content within the app.

It's very different to how, uh, content is served up in, in Spotify and other podcast platforms. Shorts are actually served to you. So there's a feed very similar to TikTok where YouTube is making the decision for you. It's serving up the short, uh, in, in, in different secessions, uh, in different kind of flows based on your watch history.

And then long form, uh, in contrast is also served up to you in a seed, but then you make the final decision as the viewer to watch it. And your decision is based on does this thumbnail sound fun and interesting or cool or compelling to me? You click through, you watch, and then. You decide to stick around or not.

Um, shorts, uh, are super interesting because they're a really new format to YouTube, but YouTube's old, it just hit its 20th birthday a couple days ago. It's pretty wild. It's been around for a couple decades already. Shorts is still a very new format and almost a format that kind of exists in isolation, um, on YouTube.

And what I mean by that is that what we see at Up Blue Club is that creators often have very different audiences that consume their shorts versus, uh, their long form. And that's, that's gonna be different for, for every, um, creator out there. Um, but here's a, an interesting story that might kind of help understand, help you understand the power of shorts.

Um. I used to work with, uh, really big tiktoks that we onboarded onto YouTube. Uh, grew them really quickly, Jeff, just with shorts. Then they ventured into creating long form, but they really struggled with bringing that long, that short form audience onto long form and they still are. You basically, when you create a shorts, um, audience, uh, or create an audience just off of the shorts format, they are looking for that same kind of content.

You have to really work to translate them over into a longer format type of video. Um, I actually kind of think that you're really starting from scratch and then vice versa. Um, when you start to create, let's say you're a an audio podcast. You brought your podcast onto YouTube that has a video component.

You've grown, uh, those video episodes up to a point, uh, then you start playing around with shorts. Um, at that point it can sometimes be an effective, effective tool to bring traffic, uh, to your long form, but. It more, more time than not, I would almost recommend on building the traffic that's coming to your long form content organically.

Um, short form. It's just, it's a pretty big challenge. Uh, it's, there's a lot of friction, like same, same word that you used in terms of bringing that viewer from shorts to long form. So there's many exceptions, many different rules. But if I were to leave you guys with one thing, I would really try to think of designing two different content slates.

One for shorts and one for long form. If you get too caught up in thinking about how the two work together, you lose sight of the value that you're delivering or you would like to deliver. And I, I would like you to deliver and belong for basically.

Chris Boniello: Awesome, thank you. And Yi, is that similar on the clip side of things with Spotify?

I know there's a bit more Yeah. Guardrails for 30 seconds. I believe There's a

Yih Lee: few differences. For us, it's up to 90 seconds. 90 seconds. Yeah. I would, I I, I agree Almost with everything Hailey just said. Um, you do have to think about it almost separately on, on our side. You know, I think we're excited about it just because it gives more context, like I was saying at the beginning.

Uh, when you're, when you think about like an audio podcast, what are the avenues or inputs you can get to like, get someone hooked in, right? It's essentially what cover art, maybe copy essentially a trailer. And, and those things have been working well on cross promos. Those things have worked really well, but now we just expanded our two set, like two x or three x.

Um, and, and this just gives more of that insight. So when you think about shorts or clips, I think you wanna challenge, um, yourself to think about it as almost like a mini trailer for every single episode. And how do you get them hooked in?

Chris Boniello: Awesome. And expanding out from shorts to full episodes here. I was wondering, ye, on the Spotify side of things, have you guys had any narrative shows that were audio only, that you've moved into a video realm that you found success with that either in adding some sort of audiogram element, graphic design, animation, or even going and filming assets

Yih Lee: very early days.

Um, right now we want to make the transition as easy as possible on our side. And there's so many folks who are essentially just talking, and I think that's the easiest mode to do. I, I think, um, one thing I'll, I'll actually pull back and say is like, as a platform for us at Spotify, we consider ourself always have been and, and right now still an audio first platform.

Uh, we think video essentially just adds another layer and, and we are very. Enthusiastic about videos you've read and seen and, and hearing my voice now. Um, but I also wanna say like, it's not for everyone. Um, so for many narrative podcasts, I think it could work if they, I know the LA Times is doing a few that, that are really interesting.

Um, but I. If it doesn't work, you're really, you know, jamming a, a square peg into a round hole and it, it does cost more money to do so. So I think it's, it's really a question you have to ask yourself, but also ask, what do your fans want? What do your users want? Uh, we said at the beginning, I said at the beginning that as a platform, uh, a majority of our users want more video.

That may not be true for some narrative podcasts who only want audio. So I think it's a very personal decision for every podcast to make. Uh, in terms of what's been working, a lot of it has been more conversational, uh, podcast, um, both big and small, but I am not a creator. Uh, and I think that as video becomes more and more, um, of a mainstream topic in these areas, I expect within a few months I'm gonna come back and say, you gotta see these five or 10 things that are, are, are really pushing the edge.

Like creators are always the ones that see what a platform does and they push. Us towards something that we didn't, uh, notice before. So I, I'm really excited to see what, what happens next.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. And in that creator space, crisp as someone who creates, produces, owns a company, going through all of these hoops here, is there I.

Things you're looking at in these initial conversations when you're gonna make a video project, whether it be a talking head show, whether it be something more narrative driven or animation driven, are there a few mistakes you always try to avoid now that you've done it so many times or a few things you check off saying, Hey, here's where the ceiling's gotta be and, and we should stop here and this is where the content's gonna be good and get a good, good engagement compared to spending a bunch more money.

Chris Colbert: Yeah, I think first and foremost we, we literally ask the question, is this an audio first podcast or is this a video first podcast? And it's not to say that you're not prioritizing the other medium, but it is saying that, okay, I'm gonna invest a lot of our time and strategy to this platform because we know that's where our audience is.

So it is, I. Actually, I'm sorry to take it one step back. What is our goal? What audience are we trying to reach and what platforms are they using? Are they primarily, you know, reach, are they primarily discovering their podcast on YouTube, or are they primarily discovering it in the audio format? Um, and so, you know, that's where we start.

And then once we know that, then we can adjust our strategies. Okay. It, it, this audience is more on YouTube. Can we create moments in this podcast that are heavily emotional, whether it be happy emotion, whether it be sad, you know, if you even think about like how you're washing dishes and watching tv, a lot of times you have your head down until something you know, big happens and then you look up, you wanna see, oh, what's going on on the screen.

I think it's a similar thing, especially with the younger Gen Z audience. That's how they ingest podcasts. So, you know, thinking about that intentionally and, okay, how can I insert elements or insert, even if it's interview ques, uh, interview format, how can I insert questions that are gonna create these emotional responses, whether it be from your guest or whether it be their, them saying something that now you emotionally respond to.

Um. Then also are there visuals are, you know, is there like a show and tell element that you can put to it? So that's when we would lean into video first. But then there's also the, you know, the core of where I came from. I worked in radio many years and though I said we started this company always thinking about video.

I'm an audio file. I love the theater of the mind aspect. And so especially as he was saying with those, with those narrative based podcasts, like those are really special and something that we can't lose in this industry. So for those ones, okay, maybe this is an audio first podcast and maybe we just have clips that we put out and we do a little bit of animation or stop motion graphics or you know, something there that helps to maybe engage a new audience that ingest differently into the audio experience.

But maybe you don't have to spend all this money to pay for a full episode. So I think from the beginning, that's where we try to start from that way as you were saying, we're not wasting money just trying to go along with what everybody else is doing in video.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. And Haley, in that video world, if someone is looking to build out kind of a hybrid format, if it's animation or a talking head or something that fits within their budget, are you still finding that YouTube will help grow that audience?

Or is there a plateau there? What kind of tools can people use if they're limited by their budget, but they want to get their stuff up on YouTube, is that gonna help grow their audience?

Hayley Rose Danick: Will it help grow their audience? Uh, if, if they use only like animation or talking head, or you're saying around the format specifically?

Chris Boniello: Yeah. Yeah. If they're gonna make sure, you know, hey, let's, we have this audio content, we want to kind of try to find a hybrid way to put it on video. Should we still put it up on YouTube? Is that worth it to grow?

Hayley Rose Danick: Yeah. It's a great question. I, I, I'm, I always come from the. Kind of philosophy when it comes to YouTube strategy, that it's, it's better to get your content up than not do it.

Like I kind of feel like the only mistake you can make is just to not get that, that content live. Um, and what I mean by that is, um, just in, as someone who's seen a lot of, um, YouTube channels and so many different phases, there's just so many different ways to success, so many different paths to, to growing.

Um, and I think when it comes to podcasts that are coming onto YouTube, especially if you have a smaller budget or if you're just not familiar with the platform, the best way to learn and to grow is to get started and getting in those reps, like I think of it as going to the gym and just every day, like getting in a few bicep curls.

You know, every week you're uploading content to YouTube, you're learning more about the platform. Uh, you're seeing what kind of a reaction the algorithm has to it. Um, you're not going to, for example, like shoot yourself on the foot by, um. Bringing a, you know, looped animation or a static image, associating that with your audio file, getting it onto YouTube.

Um, I know for sure it will perform better if you have maybe a more engaging animation or you have an actual talking head with visual supplements that's just gonna likely perform better over time. But, um, I, I think it's still like, if you have limited resources and budget, I think it's still worth experimenting with getting things onto YouTube, because again, YouTube is, is really just about the long game.

It's a slow burn. I.

Chris Boniello: Yeah. And Yih on the Spotify side. Do you find that true for smaller creators, people who are a bit budget limited, looking to produce a video side to their audio content? Is it helpful just to keep doing those reps, putting that up on Spotify and, and help encourage more engagement there?

Yih Lee: Yeah. Reps is, is massive. It's funny, Haley, I, I used the bicep crow analogy on time on my side too. I'm like, even, even before this, you know, we started Spotify partner program and I was talking to folks about video since, I don't know, 20, 23, 20 22. I said it's gonna happen. Uh, so you might as well put in the work now.

Right? And, and there is a, um, early mover advantage on this stuff. And, and, and right now, like it, we have over 6 million podcasts on Spotify. Uh. There's a growing number of video podcasts, but it's still a minority. When you think about the entire podcast landscape, there's a real opportunity here. I told you folks are leaning into video.

You, you see that on, on Spotify. You see, with the growth of podcasts on YouTube, people want it. So even if you're not sure and you have the ability to do it, and you think your fans will like it, I think putting in that work is gonna go a long way. There's an audience there and there's a gap, uh, for, for content.

Chris Boniello: And then with that content, Chris, on the production side of things and, and putting out, you know, all these reps, all this video for all these years, are you seeing that that is beneficial for when you're having conversations for branding, for marketing, for cross promos to come to the table and say, Hey, look, we've also got all this.

Video content and these extra assets compared to simply audio being uploaded.

Chris Colbert: Oh, absolutely. And, and even just from the simple standpoint of, you know, there's lots of data in this last year or two. Sounds profitables put a lot of it out there, um, of like, this is how people are discovering podcasts, even if they mainly listen on Spotify or mainly listen on Apple, whatever the platform may be.

A lot of, you know, people are now discovering on YouTube because it is the second biggest search engine powered by the first biggest search engine. Um, but then to your point too, like it just gives you another platform to be able to play with for marketing, for sales opportunities. Yes. There's the built-in, you know, span marketplace on Spotify.

There's the built-in, you know, YouTube, um, ad marketplace, but now you can also have, you know, product placement. You know, I could, you know, literally on this shelf have something that you can buy and, you know, click right on while we're doing the video. Um, and so it gives you all this. Freedom to play around with, to do affiliate, affiliate marketing, um, to be able to do, you know, additional sales.

Um, and then also to your point too, of just marketing in general. Like if I have my own book, I can literally have it sitting here while we're talking and now that maybe makes me some residual income, um, at the same time. So yeah, I definitely think that video adds an additional element that can help you market and also make revenue.

Um, and just to double back to your question earlier, one thing I forgot to also mention in terms of like, what do we think about when we're doing a video podcast is how are we gonna edit it? It's not just like audio where you can just, you know, clip and then, you know, we can make a seamless edit and no one notices if you don't have a second video camera or another way to be able to punch in.

And when I say punch in, like, you see me here, and then we can get even closer if we don't have that, then when you make an edit, it feels very jumpy. So you have to think through how are you gonna, how are you shooting? That way you can edit in a way that's gonna feel seamless for your audience. Awesome.

Chris Boniello: And then I've got a question for the whole panel. You can fight over who wants to answer first, but is there a benchmark or a metric that you would recommend that people aim for in this early space as they're moving from audio into video, whether that be a specific number of plays or consumption rate?

Yih Lee: I'll start, um, as, as a, as a partner manager, um, on my side, every podcast is, is really different. Um, so I, I think like under my like purview, I think I look after like a thousand podcasts and I, I kind of track their growth and how they're doing and, and it's really impossible to, um, do an apples to apples comparison.

Um, there's different publishing cadences, there's different formats, there's different storytelling, different fan bases. So I don't think there's like a, a silver bullet on, on my end. Um, I just wanna see incremental growth quarter over quarter. Um, I want to see, um, that there are new listeners coming. I wanna see that there's followers being added as well.

Uh, that follow button on our side, that subscribe button on YouTube and Apple, I think it's the same thing. It really feeds the system, uh, for these platforms to say. Hey, I'm interested. I wanna see more. And I think when we see more of that interest and intent, it gives us as a platform, as a recommendation engine, way more confidence to send it out back to you, to remind you, Hey, there's a new episode.

Um, or, or to send it to, to folks who are, who are like, you both listen to the same, um, content. So for me it's, it's a lot about followers and it's a lot about just incremental growth for overall, um, listeners and streams.

Chris Colbert: Yeah. To piggyback off of that, I think, you know, want to just talk on the YouTube side.

For us, I look at, kinda like you was saying, I'm looking at shorts differently than I'm looking at full content, uh, full episode content. On the short side, I'm looking at subscriber growth. For me, it, to me, it doesn't necessarily matter. Uh, like, yes, the reach is great, but I wanna see that people are engaging with this and now want to get more of it on my page.

And now by subscribing, they're gonna get alerts when we're putting stuff up. So for me, shorts are all about subscriber growth, whereas on the full length episodes, I am looking at that average consumption rate a little bit more. Are we, you know, where are those drop offs happening? And you know, as we're saying before, there's no apples to apples here.

So every piece of content, every topic, every guest is gonna be a little bit different. And so I want to. See, okay, where's that drop off happening? And can we see a pattern in where in the conversation that's happening, do we need to change the flow of how we're doing this? Are we, you know, not engaging them visually?

And so that's why they're dropping off. So, yeah, it's just, you know, really looking at the data and just trying to make comparisons, but again, treating those, the short content, separate of that full length content.

Hayley Rose Danick: Yeah, I agree. Uh, you also might hear my cat join the conversation, sorry, in advance, uh, agree with, with, uh, what these two lovely gentlemen have, uh, said and.

Um, I think that, uh, I'll just sort of echo what they have said just in the sense that, um, especially if you're getting started on YouTube, it's, I think it's really important to not get too, uh, bogged down in the numbers. However, it's important to actually be observing them all the time. So can you kind of watch them without feeling too judgmental about what they look like?

But there's always some kind of fantastic hidden pattern or message in the, in the numbers because there's so much detail with YouTube studio, with, uh, there's this thing called retention graphs, for example, on YouTube, uh, where you can look to see, uh, how you have retained someone throughout the course of a video.

You not only can look at the graph, but you can download a spreadsheet that tells you at every percentage point, basically at every second of the video, how many people were there and left. And so what that allows you to do is understand at what point in the video did people get bored, did they get frustrated?

Basically most and most importantly, did they leave? Um, so to wrap that up, I think, um, as long as you're seeing consistent growth over time, it's okay if there's a lot of fluctuation, especially in terms of views. Um, and then the other thing is just making sure you're getting familiar with all the metrics.

Um, the metrics that I think really matter are impressions, click through rate, um, of course views 'cause that's what you're getting paid out on. Uh, but really understanding the, the retention curve or the retention graph that they give you.

Chris Colbert: Well, another piece of data I wanna throw in there, by the way, for YouTube specifically, is just like, I love also you can see, uh, how do people find your content?

So like the, the allocation and where it's coming from. And so I love to look at my searches and of the searches. What are the things that people are typing in? And that helps me inform my metadata for later. What kind of descriptions should I use, which kind of title should I use? 'cause now I know how my audiences have already found me, so I can duplicate that.

And yeah. Are we gonna

Chris Boniello: see similar things like that on the Spotify side where people who are doing video creation are gonna be able to have this sort of data that is so important on YouTube? I love some

Yih Lee: of that search stuff that Chris just brought up. I'm gonna bring them back to our product team. I think that's so cool and interesting, um, on our end.

Um, first of all, on the audio side, we have a very robust, uh, analytics as well. I think what Haley was just describing about like drop off, we have that for years now on the Spotify for creator side. Um, when you add video, we essentially bring additional layer of insight. So the metrics that we will now include with video is total and total time engaged.

Um, hours listened, and the percentage of that content that was viewed in the foreground. So, um, you know, it could be an entire video, but maybe they were just kind of watching it for 40% or 80% and that should be interesting data as well.

Chris Colbert: I also probably for Spotify, I love that I can see like what artists my audience listens to.

So like if I'm a a topical kind of show, then I can lean into talking about the kind of artist that I know that my audience listens to. So like there's already great tools on Spotify for that too,

Yih Lee: and, and demographic stuff. I think, uh, for a lot of platforms that can help inform, like we're, who's my audience, but also where should I lean into, uh, when it comes to like cross promotion or guesting on another podcast and yeah,

Chris Boniello: on the Spotify side, talking about.

Looking at those percentages of what people are viewing. Since Spotify has a capability to toggle between audio and video and you can move the app around and have kind of picture and picture as well as just an audio player. If you're in something like CarPlay, do you have any insight there to what encourages an audience to watch the video simply versus, or versus simply listening to the audio?

Yih Lee: What are the insight to that? But I will say that we are incredibly proud of that feature. So last year we did a survey, you know, last year we did a survey of, of our users and we asked them, do you want video? Um, and overwhelming majority said yes. Um, but of the folks who said they want video, half of them said, we just want the option of video, which we found really interesting.

The other half were like, I, I just want video all the time. The, the first half said, we wanna go back and forth. We wanna go back and forth between audio and, and, you know, and that made so much sense to me. Um, not to tell, you know, uh, our own podcast, but Bill Simmons podcast, big fan. I'm literally listening to it today.

And I'm going from, I have to drop off my kid. I started in the, in the kitchen making breakfast and I drop off my kid and I had to come back. Um, and then I'm back on my desktop. And then I had to make an error, like in that entire two hour podcast, I must have switched like four devices, but also go back and forth between, um, watching it on a desktop, on a phone and an iPad, but also listening to it while I'm doing chores.

Um, so I think that, um, optionality has actually been a, a really cool, um. Point for Spotify when it comes to that going back and forth. And, you know, for us it's, it's not, um, we're not seeing it as a win yet that like we want to increase the foreground activity. I think the win is like, is your overall consumption?

Is your overall listeners going up? Um, and that optionality is is something that's coming into play

Chris Boniello: and our creator is gonna be able to see when a user switches video to audio and, and that sort of percentage that they're consuming.

Yih Lee: I'll take that back, not yet, but I think that's a really interesting insight.

Chris Boniello: Cool. That's awesome. Um, from the q and a section, we have a highly upvoted question, which I think could kind of go towards Hailey. Um, what are the benefits of building a short audience if it isn't always a way to hook people back into your full episodes?

Hayley Rose Danick: Whoa, that's a deep question and honestly, one I have wrestled with and have many phases with because I've worked with creators that have been Schwartz first.

Um, and I've also worked with established YouTube creators, um, that were long form, but then ventured into shorts and that kind of cannibalize their long form audience. It was a big, big mess. Um, and I don't work at YouTube anymore, so I can kind of say things like, we can also, I can also talk more offline about this, but, um, like short is an incredible tool for growth, but I think that to take a step back, like what you just wanna make sure you're doing is, um, under just getting clear on your goals and then understanding how you two can help you hit those goals if you're trying to.

Grow quickly. Um, get really good at making bite-sized pieces of content that are standalone pieces of content. You know, again, not cut downs of your podcast episode. Um, those can do okay, but I have found that shorts that are, uh, specifically scripted, you know, for that 60 seconds or 90 seconds do much better than than podcast cutdowns.

Um, you know, if you're wanting to just grow really quickly and, and drive a large, um, audience that's, uh, subscribed to you buy shorts, uh, that that can be useful to an extent. I mean, what's really tough is then, you know, the, those subscribers are not really subscribed to you to have, um, a deep connection with you.

Uh, they, they kind of are there to consume your shorts content and be entertained for small spurts. But if you're able to really pursue a long form strategy, um, and focus on that, build subscribers from that, I think that there's, I mean, there is a huge. A much bigger ROI on long form followership or subscribership in comparison to shorts.

So what I'm getting at is like, I don't wanna like totally say Schwartz are not useful 'cause I think that there are exceptions to that and they're very effective for growth. But I think if your goal is to bring is, is to try to grow an incremental new audience on YouTube for your existing podcast, I would really prioritize long form shorts can be used, um, at some point for experimentation.

But you know, for example, I think the only reason where shorts can be valuable is if you first built an audience on shorts, built a really big one based on like a relevant topic, uh, or adjacent topic to the pod, and then leverage that as a way to, to push, um. Traffic to the longer form episodes. Um, but always have to have realistic expectations there.

It's a lot to, again, ask someone to move from a short form video. Even if it's a part of the podcast episode, it's a lot to ask them to move from that to a longer form video. If you catch 'em in the right spot, maybe they're on a walk or they're waiting in a doctor's office, they have the time to do that, great.

But if not, you know, it, you could suffer from, um, decreased average view percentage. What I mean by that is someone could go from the schwart to the long form and be like, Ooh, I don't wanna watch a long form. And then they just get out of there. And that's not a great, uh. That's not a great, a kind of like supporting point for YouTube.

They're like, oh, this, this video's not good if people are not sticking around to waters, the whole thing.

Chris Boniello: I find myself doing that with a lot of cooking videos where in the short they get it done so fast and it looks delicious, and then I click on the full one and I don't have a half hour and I'm not actually gonna cook it, but I just wanted to see it look good.

So I've, I've probably messed up a few people's numbers in my day. Um, and on that side of things where you, you know, you're looking at. Mixing your assets from shorts to full video and audio only. Chris, on some of your shows, are you doing different versions for an audio only version versus a video version?

That was a challenge that we even at the glomerate had where we were looking at some of our shows to say, Hey, we really cut this audio down, but if we're gonna do a video version like you were mentioning earlier, it's gonna have a bunch of punch in punch outs, jump cuts. Are we okay with that? I, I see Gen Z kids watching crazy jump cuts all the time, and I'm like coming from a video editing background, it makes me crazy, but it works.

It's like the French new wave all over again. So do you find yourself making multiple assets for that one deliverable, or are you trying to find a middle ground there?

Chris Colbert: Trying to find a middle ground. When we first started, I very much, and it's been a conversation a lot lately, I've been noticing in, in different chats and stuff of like, yeah, you create a different product specific for the audio listening audience and then, you know, a different version for the video watching audience that can get expensive and, and that's actually what we did early on where we would have, like, we had this mental health show where it would feature three different people talking about a similar subject matter, but it's only cutouts from the full interview.

So for the audio podcast, we're giving you essentially these vignettes. Of people talking about the same topics, and then you can go to our YouTube to get the full length conversation with each individual person. And that worked in some respects, like our Wayne Brady one, like went through the roof, um, on, on the video side, but as a whole, like it, we ended up spending more money than we really made back for that.

So we try to now thread the needle in between. Um, and that's where it goes back to what I was kind of saying in the beginning of, okay, let's talk through what is the main platform we're trying to achieve with, and let the other one kind of be more of an add-on as opposed to trying to tackle both with the same gusto that we, you know, that, that we have.

Now. If you have a lot of money or have a large team, then maybe you can do that. But I think a lot of people here are kind of bootstrapping it. And so that's where I try to focus on one and then see where you can thread the needle to make the other one work.

Chris Boniello: Would you say that that holds true for Spotify as well, since you can flip between audio and video?

It's, it's hitting that middle ground now.

Yih Lee: Yeah. I think that's, that, that's what we think and that's what we feel. And, and I think that you, you really need to start thinking about your audience, both knowing that, that people like to switch back and forth. So how do you play to that audience, but you also know your audience.

Um, so, you know, I, I, I, uh, I see a lot of comments and it's like. You know, one word that I haven't heard today yet on this panel that was always in every single podcasting panel, that's actually very true for video podcasting is authenticity. And for the longest time for podcasting is about you have to be authentic.

That's the whole thing about the audio, uh, business. I actually think video podcasting is, is even more true. And when you think you have to think about authenticity in the way that you are producing and the way that you're hosting, but also in the way that you're, you're reaching folks if you're doing video just for like a, an easy grab at more audience.

Like it's gonna show, you know, and I think when you're very intentional about why you're doing video and who's it for, um, and you know that you're listeners are going back and forth, um, then, then I think having that intentionality and authenticity will, will, will really speak, uh, volumes.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. And that came from Emily Reeves.

I'm now jumping into the audience q and a. It's been filling up the whole time here. I know we've got plenty more we could cover and probably have to do another few of these. Um, from Theo here is wondering, we could throw this to the whole panel, but are there some resources for audio producers that are looking to learn how to make video that you would find, you know, top of stack that you want to hit?

Chris Colbert: Uh, the ones I mentioned before, Riverside Squad cast, you know, again, because they have that backend editing, that really helps. Obviously the recording part is, is, is very nice as well. Um, I think those are great. There's also certain AI tools out there, um, and I, I don't have 'em off the top of my head, but, you know, happy to talk to folks on the side, um, and, and consult there.

But, um, there are also certain AI tools that will take multiple cameras and do an initial cut for you. And essentially in talking to video editors, this saves, you know, even professional video editors two hours of time. Um, so yeah, auto, auto Pod is a pretty fun one. Yep. There you go. So, and there's, yeah, so there's great variations there.

Even when you get down to the metadata, like I, we haven't touched on it a lot here, but we've kind of talked about it a little bit. Like, that's super important. How are you writing descriptions and titles? And so there's definitely a lot of AI tools out there. I know I personally like Flow Send, you know, where it'll just comb through my transcript and much like chat GPT, you can teach it how to, to pull stuff for you, and it'll give you the kind of descriptions and the, uh, titles that will help you to convert a little bit better on these platforms.

So I think all those different kind of tools can, can be really helpful here.

Chris Boniello: Haley, do you have any secret AI tools for people when looking to help them with their packaging since it's such a big deal going into video from audio?

Hayley Rose Danick: The, the best secret I can tell you is the Higher Upload club. Um, no, I don't have anything to add.

That's really helpful. Uh, there's a, a couple of other, um, directors, um, producers that I work with specifically on podcast content. So. Um, if anyone's also looking to, to hire those kinds of resources, um, a lot of folks are out there that have that expertise that can, that make, make the process really seamless on the video.

Yih Lee: And then I just wanna add, uh, I have no tools, I defer to, um, Chris there, um, on my end. I think what we, what we believe is that, um, the, the barrier of entry for video while higher than audio, should also be be low. I, I think it's, um, it's about authenticity. I think there's a lot of fear, uh, especially when you think about the publishers that I work with who are used to being on network, television, hair and makeup, like studio, no.

Um, if you can afford it and it looks natural, great. Um, but you know, the thing with Riverside, all these other tools is. It's about just having a conversation and breaking down those walls and you don't need an expensive setup. You don't need, um, an hour in the chair of hair and makeup. Uh, that would drive everyone insane.

There'll be far less podcasts than video podcast after that. Um, I think the real, and, and people see right through it, you know, and some of the biggest podcasts right now all in as an example, it's just four dudes on Zoom. They definitely don't do hair, makeup, I can tell you that. Right. And I, I think that's okay.

I think they want to hear from the voice. They just wanna hear from the person, the authentic person. Um, there, um, so I just wanna throw that 2 cents in.

Chris Boniello: Yeah, I think that that's a huge point and something I'm always talking to people about when they're asking about budget equipment, tools and things that sometimes it's scaling it back down to just being an authentic voice.

And even in terms of editing, if there's a jump cut there or something weird happens, a cat goes across the screen or barks, sometimes it's easier to laugh at it and be honest with your audience and tell them, Hey, the dog ran across here and pulled my headphones off my head. Versus trying to edit around it, re-engineer it.

And it, it helps create that engagement directly with your audience. 'cause a lot of times people are consuming right in their head and they're out on a walk and it's, it's much more personal in the consumption side of things and it feels like sometimes for coming from the creator side. And I think that that gets lost in post-production a bit.

Trying to fix too many errors that can be really endearing for an audience, you know, especially if they're just there listening to you.

Hayley Rose Danick: I'd love to. Add to that, just Yeah. But I think that's such an important point. Um, and something, uh, you know, that I, I think can be kind of refine to a lot of things is, is, uh, you don't, I don't think people want it to look perfect.

Um, I think that they, they want it to valuable and they want it to be engaging. And I think one of the, uh, kind of challenges I help a lot of clients overcome is that sort of like, it, it needs to be perfect before it goes live. Um, and that prevents you from getting into reps, um, getting the uploads, you know, onto the channel and, and the learning and the growth happens after you get, you know, the content up.

So I think that that's just really important, uh, to remember walking away from is Yeah. If you're thinking about producing video content and you're moving from audio, yeah. The, the expectations in terms of quality don't need to be. You know, far and above it can just be hanging in the living room. You know, Chris has a perfect setup.

That might be too, too nice. Come, come on over to Pot Stream studios. Both Chris's actually. Yeah. I gotta level it up,

Chris Boniello: you know, if I'm asking people to produce podcasts with us, we gotta look and sound good. Um, interesting question here in the chat from Sarah. I can pose this out to the full panel and then I think it'd be interesting for ye to pull in from the Spotify side of things, but why do you think audiences are driven towards video now?

And are these the same audiences who are listening to the audio only podcasts? Or is this world of YouTube versus Spotify driving kind of a race to the top to get more market share in terms of video?

Yih Lee: Guys, me first?

Chris Boniello: Sure. Hop on in.

Yih Lee: I'll go first. Um. I mean, it's a bit of a chicken or egg question and it's really hard to answer.

And I, I think, uh, at the end of the day, I'm not sure, and I don't know, but I do know that, um, like what's driving it, I do know that it's happening. Um, is it because their favorite hosts are now on video and therefore they're used to it? It they become, um, it's become normalized is what their expectation is very possible.

Um, is it because. When we think about younger audiences, uh, as like the core, I'm a, I'm a very hard, like down the line millennial, uh, as we age up. And these younger folks come in, like they grew up in an age of YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and Visual has always been part of their component. Um, and I think we're, we're learning from them as well.

And many of them have become creators, especially, um, in a post covid world. We saw a lot of this spring up, um, when people were stuck at home. And I think when you're stuck at home, it became a lot more video, um, and a a lot more authentic. Like, I'm in my bed, uh, just talking. Um, so I think it's, it's real. I don't think it is a, a rat race, um, between platforms.

It's a very expensive investment for platforms. Um, so platforms would only be doing it if they, they know and they see, and we know and we see what our fans and our, uh, users and creators are telling us.

Chris Colbert: Yeah. To piggyback off of that, I, I, everything you says is right on. That's what we've seen as well. I actually even had, uh, you know, I'm also a millennial, but I had a Gen Z you know, person live with me for a little while going to college.

And it was interesting watching them ingest YouTube. Like it's just on in the background. They're not even looking at it half the time. That's just, you know, but they're so used to having video with everything, and that now has a trickle effect into the older generations, millennials and so on and so forth, where because we're now on social media so much, it's just ingrained in us that, oh, this.

It has to have video. Um, and so yeah, I think, I personally think it is a little bit of that. Um, I also think it really is just the fact that these are really powerful search engines. YouTube being a really powerful search engine, so they just happen to stumble on it. And we're in this phase of, you know, trying to find what a podcast is.

And, and I've always been on the side of, we don't define it, our audience does well, we're just creating digital content. And that's the way I always look at this. And so, you know, people find our digital content on YouTube because of the search engine aspect and because of the way that the algorithms work and all that video tends to perform better there.

And so I, I do think that that's why we're seeing a lot of people discovering, uh, video podcasts and then maybe eventually moving over to the audio. And this,

Chris Boniello: yeah, go ahead.

Hayley Rose Danick: No, no, go for it.

Chris Boniello: No, I was gonna throw a curve ball. So let's stay on topic here.

Hayley Rose Danick: Ooh. Uh, I'll just, uh, add a little story that, um, nevermind.

Anyway, uh, I used to work on the podcast acquisition team, so three, four years ago, we were bagging people to come onto YouTube. We were begging audio podcasts to come onto YouTube. And now people are, they understand the value, they understand why. Which is amazing, but I kind of bring that up because I think it, it kind of taps into this, um, why come to YouTube?

I think, again, like what you said, it's a bit chicken or the egg. Like I think we, YouTube proved the value of, uh, having a video component, which is that, and Andrew Huberman actually talks a lot about this in a couple of early episodes that he and his team found that, uh, viewers or consumers, listeners were far more engaged with the video than just the audio.

So it's kind of a marketing tactic. If you have a video component associated and you've got a guy in the same outfit, same time, you know, same look and vibe, that's gonna be, uh, a familiar thing to them. They build a, a closer connection with Andrew, the human versus just Andrew, the voice. So I think that that was kind of at the root of, um, why there were a lot of podcasts that actually just did come onto YouTube and, uh, have continued to stay there because there is value in that.

Um. That component of, of engagement. Um, but I do think, like, as everyone has said today, you just have to evaluate it for yourself. Like YouTube has an agenda. If that is the right agenda for you to bring video onto onto your podcast, great. But it might not fully make sense and it's up to you and it's all good

Chris Boniello: in that world of not fully making sense.

This was a bit about my curve ball, but I was wondering, y do you have any examples from any of the Spotify shows of shows that you would say should just stay to audio and not take the dive into video from everything we're kind of learning about what it takes to get into that world?

Yih Lee: Um, yeah, I mean it goes back to some of those narrative podcasts.

I think, well, narrative podcasts or even daily shows. Um. I'm not gonna say names, but I, I, I think, um, there are some shows that are, you, you can tell, um, they're so heavily produced and it's beautiful that way. Like it is beautiful as a heavily produced audio show. And I know just talking to the producers there that it just wouldn't work Like you would be transforming the entire DNA of that show.

I think when I say that, I, I hope everyone already knows the type of shows that you'll be thinking about. I think those shows should just stick to audio. I think you're, you're changing the DNA of your show. Um, if, if you take that away where it's highly produced audio, it, it's not for everyone. And I think there's, uh, we, we wanna still be a place where, uh, there's a sacred space for that type of content and, and those shows are still growing too.

Chris Boniello: I agree there. I think podcasting is such a huge realm and such a broad spectrum that, you know, at a certain point you're either reverse recreating true crime documentaries, you're trying to film people around a tabletop game and annoying everyone in the whole process. 'cause the lighting isn't right and you're catching the other cameraman on the other side so it can, there's, you know, pros and cons all around this.

Um, on the YouTube side of things, Hailey, as someone who's working directly with creators, is it tough to look at YouTube as a quote unquote partner because they can change their algorithm so quickly and out of nowhere is, is there a detective work needed there?

Hayley Rose Danick: Oh, no, I would always, um, YouTube is on your side.

It's like an incredible, magical free distribution platform. It's just a matter of time and the kind of magical thing that happens over time as you get more reps in, you just get better at the content and the quality and YouTube will reward you. It just takes longer than TikTok or Instagram, um, algorithm.

The algorithm is the audience. Uh, it's not really the algorithm that is changing, it's the taste and preferences of the audience. So if you're not seeing a response, it's because you're not, uh, able to capture what the audience is looking for. Um, alternatively though, if you're starting from scratch and you just haven't, you know, kind of made that, that click or switch, the flip the switch, um, uh, just keep trying and try, try different angles, um, because I, I promise you just, I become more obsessed with YouTube.

Every week because I see how much it benefits people over time and how it is working for you, especially when you get to certain, uh, sizes.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. And in that YouTube world, this is a question from Dustin. I know I haven't read everyone's names and thank you all for all the questions. They've been coming in very quickly.

Um, for Chris, would you suggest that people are posting both on the YouTube podcast area as well as their general YouTube page, and within those playlists, is there something you're finding successful as someone who's been posting video for so long? I'm sorry. Say, say that one more time. Do you find it.

Helpful and beneficial for people to post within YouTube podcasts or just within their page and, and

Chris Colbert: building those playlists? I, I do one. I I don't, you know, I don't like trying to send people to too many different places, especially on the same platform. So yeah, for us, like our Tory show is a great example.

We, we, you know, physically put up Tory show videos, so we don't then ingest the RSS feed of to ratio also on YouTube. Um, that's just our personal preference. It's just, yeah, let's make it one stop shop for them. Um, but yeah, you know, I think as we've been saying here, I don't think that there's a, a magic bullet for any of this.

I think it's test out what works for you. See, you know, play around. I think especially if you're just starting out with it, play around with both and see where the audience goes, and then where the audience goes is what you stick with. Um, so yeah, I think, you know, play it out. Play around with it for yourself.

You, you can't really lose much outside of, you know, obviously on the video side, if you're getting into it, there's some money involved. But again, if it's, if you're already doing video, it doesn't hurt to be able to try these, you know, both strategies out.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. And as we're reaching time here, I just wanted to thank everyone for all of these questions.

And then I've got one quick question in the group. Well, let's start with Hailey, then go to Chris, then to Yi. If you've got one quick tip that you could give to anyone dipping their toes into video podcasting, what would it be?

Hayley Rose Danick: Uh, just get started. Just do it. Nike,

Chris Colbert: uh, define, define your goals before you get started and define your goals and define your audience.

And, and that's gonna give you the roadmaps for success.

Yih Lee: Uh, and mine would be be true to yourself if you're doing video, just because a few smart people in this panel told you that it's the wave of the future. And that's the only reason, uh, I'll probably do some more thinking about it. It has to match your content, be true to yourself and your content.

Chris Boniello: Awesome. Well, thank you all very much. Thank you to everyone who attended. I can throw things back over to Erin from AIR.

Erin McGregor: Yes. Just one final announcement that today's presentation was recorded and will be made available on Sound Path. A huge thank you to our partner in this endeavor at the Podglomerate to Joni, Jeff and Chris, thank you so much to all of our panelists today.

Everyone who joined in. Uh, thank you so much for all of your engagement and we will see you soon. Thank you so much everybody.