From Private Equity to Podcasting with Blanchard House’s Hassan Chaudhry

Hassan Chaudhry: This may be controversial to say, but I don't think podcasting should be a standalone industry, just like I don't think film should be a standalone industry. Film is shrinking. People are going less and less to theaters, or they're being more selective. You have to look at every medium as one avenue, and actually work across mediums.

Jeff Umbro: This is Podcast Perspectives, a show about the latest news in the podcast industry and the people behind it. I'm your host, Jeff Umbro, founder and CEO of The Podglomerate. Today on the show, I'm speaking with Hassan Chaudhry. He is the head of partnerships and strategy at Blanchard House. Blanchard House is an independent podcast company out of the UK focused on making narrative podcasts with the eventual aim of selling that podcast IP for film and television. Hassan sits between content and business development. In this role, he has helped sell shows to Exactly Right, Apple, and Wondery. In this episode, we speak about these partnerships and how he approaches them, the future of IP ownership in podcasting and other mediums and what he's learned from his early career in finance and at HBO Max. Let's get to the show.

Welcome Hassan. How are you doing?

Hassan Chaudhry: I'm doing good, Jeff. Thanks for having me on. How are you?

Jeff Umbro: I'm great. So just to start, can you introduce yourself the way that you would at, like, a cocktail party?

Hassan Chaudhry: Okay. There's a lot of ways I would do that. But, so my name is Hassan Chaudhry. I am the head of partnerships and strategy at a production company called Blanchard House.

Blanchard House is a nonfiction narrative audio storytelling company. We try to make and produce cinematic audio stories that then serve as IP for film and television. And I work on the partnerships to make all of that happen.

Jeff Umbro: So you are the guy that everybody is seeking in podcasting right now to take IP development from podcasting to everything else.

And you are that guy in part because of your former career working at HBO Max. But I actually want to ask you about your career before that. What did you learn as a banker that was helpful for you, like transitioning into podcasting?

Hassan Chaudhry: I see you've done your research. Yes, I was an investment banker. I moved into private equity investing for a few years and I like to call myself a recovering finance bro. In terms of what that experience gave me, it was a grueling and difficult job. A lot of hours, a lot of pressure and stress, but it gave me an education in how to work with business owners, how to work to make a deal happen, and also how to present, right? A lot of my job was making presentations. I was the junior analyst making presentations in PowerPoint, building analysis in Excel, and trying to put together a story of why, you know, a company should do something. So that was like the basis and the foundation of, I think, every other job that I had from there. I've used those skills and everything.

And I'm using it today. I mean, you know, we present to partners all the time. We present our stories and say, partner A should make this story and work with us, and we'll put it out into the world. And there's sort of a dance and a relationship that you have to build. That's what I learned from those jobs way back when.

Jeff Umbro: What made you want to get into podcasting?

Hassan Chaudhry: I wanted to jump into something that I enjoyed reading about. It was really fortunate and lucky that HBO had an opening. And so I jumped to HBO in 2016, started there as a strategy and finance person, slowly moved into content strategy and film programming and really learning all about the industry, television, film, like every aspect.

One of the jobs that I had was looking into new ways that HBO, HBO Max could reach audiences or produce more content for audiences to enjoy. And I looked at things like video games and AR, VR and interactive content, all these things that are really sort of popular now, but back then, one of the best ways to actually, one of the best and also the least expensive ways to reach audiences was through podcasting.

And so quickly we learned that podcasting was a great way to just find talent, record a behind the scenes or record their perspective on, you know, the thing that they made, and audiences really enjoyed that. The HBO audience is perfect for that because they just want more and more context and engagement.

It was sort of the perfect timing. And so I, at the end of my tail rear at HBO, I, along with Michael Gluckstadt and Becky Rowe, who are still at HBO Max. We established the HBO Max podcasting team, produced I think 70 plus shows, most of them were companion shows, right? It was like after the show we would talk about the episode, we would talk about the choices that were made, and how they came to certain plot points.

We also did a few scripted shows and everything in between. So it was a ton of fun, but yeah, that's how I got into podcasting.

Jeff Umbro: I think the companion shows are basically like the DVD extras of today.

Hassan Chaudhry: Yeah.

Jeff Umbro: And it makes me happy to hear that, cause I used to love that stuff, but you kind of talked about this a second ago, but like, what did your job actually entail?

You were standing up this department that were doing these things, but like, what were you doing in order to assist with all of that?

Hassan Chaudhry: We looked at ourselves as a startup within a massive company. And changing minds and doing anything new is very difficult. So my job specifically was to basically make a business plan, a marketing plan, a strategy for why we should allot money and resources and time, both internally and externally, into something that we have never done before. And that was new and a bit foreign. And so doing a bit of a roadshow and really standing up the building blocks of, here is what podcasting represents for HBO, what it can be if you give us a few years of runway, how can we reach more audiences?

And so the business case is you reach more audiences because they're going to spend more time engaging with HBO properties and content. And that's always a good thing because again, through research, we found people that listen to podcasts related to an asset tend not to churn. They don't sigh. They don't get rid of their subscription as easy as someone who doesn't.

And that simple fact, I mean, Spotify proved that out years ago when they rolled out podcasting and said, yeah, people that listen to music and then also podcasts stayed on longer. So essentially building that business case and also another added benefit was we get to work with talent who is then happy and wants to talk about their craft.

They want to reach audiences. So we're not only making talent happy, we're not only reaching audiences, but there's a business case to this, right? It's much cheaper to produce podcasts than it is another half hour of a show.

Jeff Umbro: It goes back to the idea of it being like the DVD extras. It's like, you're putting out more content that builds more community, that brings people back to the platform and the property and builds more word of mouth.

And it's brilliant. It's simple. It's brilliant. It does everything that you need it to. Because it is so simple, did you underestimate at any point, like the popularity of these things? These companion podcasts?

Hassan Chaudhry: Oh, yeah. And I actually, I think your analogy is great. In fact, I would go even further back and say, podcasting can sometimes represent magazine, right?

Where you're getting a snippet or an insight that you wouldn't get originally, but if it's written in a column or a magazine, you can really get the inside, like get into Craig Mazin's head as to why he chose to make The Last of Us and, and what he did in certain episodes. But, in terms of your question, yeah, I mean, we knew that audiences, that the HBO viewer, was going to listen to podcasts, right?

We just, it just made sense from a demographic standpoint, age, location, what have you, but the popularity of it really surprised us. And we were so excited and honestly relieved because it just let us, the business case got stronger and stronger as time went on, right? Like my job actually got easier cause I was just like, look, it's, it's working. Give us a little bit more.

Jeff Umbro: Yeah, we'll take more money, resources, team, staff, and we'll do this all over again.

Hassan Chaudhry: Yeah. And you can never have enough. And so, yeah, we underestimated it. I think it became like, we would put tiles and they still do. We put tiles at the beginning or the end of an episode and say, listen to the Succession podcast.

And that was a huge driver. We put podcasts on the actual service so you could listen and watch. So there was a ton of fun stuff we were toying with.

Jeff Umbro: Do you have like an example of a success story of one of the HBO podcasts that you created or like helped to work on the team to create?

Hassan Chaudhry: If you look at what Chernobyl did for I think companion podcasts, but I also think podcasting in general.

That I think put on the map that there could be shoulder content that is elevated. And it was sort of that perfect timing of it's a show about a historical event. And it was also really dramatic and amazing and people wanted more. And I think that playbook really carried us through so many shows. So the other example is Succession.

There's a million ways to do all of these podcasts. It could be two people in a room and you're just talking about it, but that is definitely not the effort or the strategy that we always took. Ours was, we want to build. What are the questions that I have after an episode? So for Succession, it was great to have Kara Swisher, who is like the, you know, tech and business journalist.

Like she would be...

Jeff Umbro: She would be working for exactly, be working at Logan Roy's new company maybe.

Hassan Chaudhry: Yeah. And probably, you know, asking a million questions. But I got to give the credit to Michael Gluckstadt and Becky Rowe. Part of that podcast would be about the plot. Wow, did you, let's talk about what Kendall and Roman did in this one and Shiv.

And some of it was about the plot as sort of the audience member. Then part of it was, okay, would this happen really in a boardroom? Would the COO of a company get on the phone with the president? So we would bring on experts who have worked in the White House, owned businesses, run companies, been there and had them give their perspective, being that place for the audience to ask the questions that they want to ask or want to hear about. So I think those two stick out for me in terms of like what, the playbook that we were going for.

Jeff Umbro: You had partnerships to help produce most or all of those shows when you were at HBO, right? Like Chernobyl, I believe it was Pineapple Street.

Hassan Chaudhry: Oh yeah.

Jeff Umbro: Who did the Succession one?

Hassan Chaudhry: I think our major partners were Pineapple and iHeart and many others, but yeah, it was super fun working with all of them.

Jeff Umbro: You moved over to Blanchard House as the head of partnerships and strategy. What was it about Blanchard House that was appealing to you, appealing enough to make that move?

Hassan Chaudhry: Well, I came across Rosie Pye, who is the creative director and co founder of the company. I met her at a conference and we chatted for about 15 minutes, her and Kim Jung, CEO and also co founder. And immediately, I think we both just realized we speak a very similar language. Now that's not where it sort of ended.

We kept in touch over the course of a year, year and a half, we chatted and she said, you know, what would it take for you to come over and work with me? And I was, I was taken aback and I went home and I thought to myself, honestly, not that much, because I really, if you've ever met Rosie, you realize that she is a powerhouse, a creative genius, and I don't throw that word around lightly.

And, I loved my time at HBO, HBO Max. I have really great friends there, but there comes a certain point, I think, where you have to take a leap of faith. It's calling you and there's a belief in sort of what they're doing. And honestly, what Blanchard is doing, continues to do, is something that I'm really grateful for that they even offered to bring me over. So that's sort of how it happened. And we slowly chatted and made it happen. And then one day I joined the company.

Jeff Umbro: And what is it that they do? What sets Blanchard House apart from other production companies?

Hassan Chaudhry: One is they have a team of journalists. Rosie basically worked at the BBC and The Economist, very grueling job.

She's worked in war torn countries. She's worked on abuse cases, like really difficult stuff, and I think reached a point where she said, I want to break out onto my own. I want to work on stories that I like to tell and that there's a sense of hope in what I do, started Blanchard House and went to all of her friends, producers, sound and music professionals, and said, why don't you join me?

And built a team of about 20 people who go and essentially produce the story. So what we do is we have a development team. Our head of development is Duncan Barber. Also, in my opinion, just like a creative giant. He's incredible. He, him and Rosie go out and find the stories, build that trust and that duty of care with those people and say, look, we are journalists. We want to tell this story in a certain way. We're not going to do it irresponsibly. We're going to do it very thorough.

And so we then build slates. So two times a year, we build slates of about four or five stories. They are character driven, universal themed. And they usually have a bit of weirdness or magic or what have you.

There's always a weird angle. If you look at the thread through all of our shows, which I love, I love sort of that, uh, that discomfort that you get, the complication of did this person actually do something that I don't agree with and if they did, do I still like them? It's honestly what I love about HBO shows.

And I felt, and I see that in, in our shows. So that's, I think what makes them different. Oh, the one thing I will add is we have an in house sound and music. There's no stock music. There's no pulling from a library. Like our team are ex musicians and they make the music and they make it special and perfect.

And so I think throw all of that into a pot and you have Blanchard House.

Jeff Umbro: Just to underscore that, if you check out a previous episode of Podcast Perspectives with Garrett Tiedemann, you'll get a sense of what that means to have someone in house who is really giving every show in every episode of every show, a lot of TLC when it comes to crafting that unique sound that's meant for that show.

Nothing wrong with stock music, but like you can hear a difference. So...

Hassan Chaudhry: Yeah, and honestly, to that point, if I could add, there is nothing wrong with stock music, but I think we try to operate in sort of the very premium.

Jeff Umbro: And that's what makes you guys great and unique. And that is the thing that sets you apart to your, to your point.

What is an example of a show that you guys have done that really strikes all the chords that you're talking about?

Hassan Chaudhry: I think our show Pirate of Prague, which was an Apple TV show. It's basically about the like first oligarch. This guy, Viktor Kožený, essentially swindled a bunch of very reputable people, investors, to give him money based on basically lies and was able to start a fund because he said he had the business deal of a lifetime.

Jeff Umbro: They always do.

Hassan Chaudhry: They always do. And he's sort of a Elizabeth Holmes esque character, like that sort of thing. And you follow his path. I mean, he's got a lot of issues, but at the same time, you have to admire that at certain times he was really smart and really, you know, they say charming like a hundred times in the podcast, because everyone that met him says that he was charming.

Jeff Umbro: We all have people like that in our lives. And I think a lot of people can get a sense of what you mean there. It strikes me that there's this dichotomy in the two jobs that you've had in podcasting, where your shows at HBO were very timely and in a lot of ways, easy to promote. Your shows at Blanchard House are very timeless, and it strikes me that maybe not as easy to promote. How do you think about that? How did the revenue models differ? How do you define success for each of those?

Hassan Chaudhry: That's a great question. I would say on the HBO side, when I was making those business cases, it was not all about revenue. It was about time spent with HBO's content and assets and properties.

Jeff Umbro: In a lot of ways, it was like a marketing vehicle.

Hassan Chaudhry: It's a marketing vehicle. It's an engagement vehicle. And that, by the way, that leads to dollars because the longer that you spend consuming something, the less likely you are to get rid of it, you become a superfan. So we were trying to build the average fan into a engaged superfan and podcasting was one of the ways to do it and it was a really effective way. There was data to prove it.

On the Blanchard side, you really are selling that character. You're selling that story. And so we work with partners, obviously, like Apple, and Wondery, and Audible, and ERM. All of them are wonderful. The difference there is you have to market a hook. And that person, or that hook, that gets you into the story.

We did The Butterfly King with ERM. And the hook there was that the king of Bulgaria was mysteriously murdered under odd circumstances. It was around the time of World War II, he had some relations with Hitler. What happened? What went wrong? Right? And then our journalists. Becky Milligan, and E. J. Kirby tell that story brilliantly, right?

So how do we build a hook and get someone to say, you know what, I'm going to spend 35 minutes listening to episode one. And that partially is done with a partner. ERM did an amazing job helping to market that, but that is ultimately the business model, right? Like we work with that partner or that partner then will generate ad revenues, market it. And that's the lifeblood, I think of all narratives, audio storytelling.

Jeff Umbro: Your role at Blanchard House, head of partnerships and strategy. What is your day to day? What are you doing when you're at work making moves for Blanchard House?

Hassan Chaudhry: Making moves. I like that. When I make moves, I am essentially working with Duncan, our head of development, Rosie, our creative director, to compile those stories, write out treatments, and then go find partners who things might work for.

Right? If we have a true crime story with incredible woman lead, we have a few places that we know that might want a story like that, and so we will pitch them and we'll try to share with them why we think it's good for their network. And so Rosie and I will go do that. We will reach out to all of our friends at the various audio distributors and partners, and essentially walk them through our slate and specific stories.

So that's one thing. Another thing is those stories that we have, whether they are going down an audio path or not, the team will reach out to production companies, film studios, filmmakers, directors, actors, and writers as well, obviously, and pitch them that concept and say, look, this story, The Pirate of Prague would really be amazing for a limited series.

Right? You could make a scripted filmed version of this, or you could make a documentary and it's all work. Duncan will look at every story and say, okay, is there an archive, right? Could this be a documentary? If there is, then maybe we take it to a few of our contacts and pitch it as such. Could this be a really compelling film? Is there a beginning, middle, end? Are there enough characters to sustain an eight episode series? Right? So we try to do the early work on structuring that, and then again, having conversations and sort of hitching that concept to anyone that can make it.

Jeff Umbro: Hassan, you and I have talked about the IP conversation often.

It strikes me that most people probably don't have a general awareness of what goes into those conversations. And to me, it helps to break it all down into like kind of the component pieces. So like when I say that I'm going to negotiate with a partner about the ownership of IP. What are those assets that we're actually talking about and negotiating?

And like, what are the different ways in which that negotiation could go?

Hassan Chaudhry: Our sort of viewpoint on IP is we have that bench of journalists who go find the story. We will then work with either the author, if there's a book, and try to do a partnership with them where we say, Look, we would like to have interview rights with you exclusively. We want to tell this story. Do you believe in our vision? We will then go to an audio partner, allow them and sort of pitch them and sell them the rights. Now you're going to talk to a production company or a network or a streamer and say, okay, We believe this can be a film. Would you like the rights to the film?

And the way that works is you would enter into a shopping agreement that could last anywhere from 12 months to 18 months. And that basically gives both parties the opportunity to dig deeper into the story, investigate it further, build a pitch deck, build that vision of what this film could be. And then you might take that film and pitch it.

And you'll go to Warner Brothers, and you'll go to A24, BBC Studios, wherever. And they would then have to say, okay, we want to invest in this. We want to green light this and make it, if everything goes well, they'll pay a sum or some in increments. Like, okay, here's what we'll pay for green lighting this.

Here's what we'll pay when it gets on air. That is the typical process.

Jeff Umbro: Just in addition to that, things that I guess are open for negotiation when you're having these conversations would be like ownership of the RSS feed. Is it a co production and do you get co branding on that production? Like when it's out in the world, who owns the actual IP of the show, meaning like the audio properties and like those actual files, long story short, there's a million different ways to kind of break this down and that negotiation process can go any number of ways, but what does the landscape kind of look like in your opinion today? If I have this like amazing story that I want to tell and I bring it to an Apple or an Odyssey, do you find that there's a big appetite for these co productions and like the creators keeping ownership or is it basically always going to be turned into kind of a work for hire situation?

Hassan Chaudhry: People now, generally speaking, want to play in the IP game. They want participation, especially if the story is going to require investment and development on their end. Everyone wants to be involved in whatever derivative happens afterwards. And obviously the cool thing now is, and it's, it is cool and it's fun, is a film and TV property.

And so I think most companies It feels like want to play in that game. Now they're not everyone. There are some who say, look, we don't have the investment. We don't have the time, the patience, the resources to deal with all of that. Because that, that negotiation that you're talking about on the audio side is already difficult enough.

It takes a lot of time to figure out who owns what and what the podcast will be branded as, and also what talent to even put in it, the film and TV side can take years. And there's a lot of patience.

Jeff Umbro: You're not getting paid in those years.

Hassan Chaudhry: No.

Jeff Umbro: Unless you're very lucky and maybe you get a good option or something.

Hassan Chaudhry: In most cases, you're not getting paid until that thing is, there's a camera rolling and it's being seen by someone. We love starting from our journalism as the IP. We're not a film studio. We're not a television studio. We will be along for the ride. Typically our journalists need to be because that subject in all of our stories, trusts, Surrane Jones, or Poppy Damon, or Becky Milligan, or EJ, or Beth, like trying to name everyone. They trust our journalists that they've spent hours and hours with, and whether a film is being shot, or a television show is being written, they want to know that, okay, the Blanchard person is there, they understand, so we tend to be involved the whole way through.

Jeff Umbro: That's amazing.

Now I want to ask you for an independent creator or like a tiny shop that can't afford stuff like a Hassan basically, what advice do you have or like recommendations if somebody wants to kind of pursue this while retaining their own IP? Like, is that just not going to happen in 2024?

Hassan Chaudhry: I don't think it will happen on a 100 percent basis.

So you're going to be willing to give up part of it. I definitely would not give up all of it. My advice generally is pick a lane. Do you want to be broad audience? Do you want to be a segment of the broad audience that is big and engaging? Pick that lane. And then differentiate yourself with the stories that you're finding.

We don't ever try to go in and do the story on the latest thing. We're not going to. Elizabeth Holmes, like we're just going to lose out on that. There's 10 other people who are much better, well funded, like the much more well funded who will get to that story, get the access. So instead we focus on the way other end, which is niche stories that have universal appeal, something that no one's really paying attention to, but that we see Okay, there's value in it. And we could tell this story in a framing or a positioning that everyone would understand. So that's the lane we've chosen. And then we secure the access, right? Like we gain the trust of those people involved in the story so that when we walk into a meeting, you know, a pitch meeting, whether it's audio or film and TV.

Jeff Umbro: You guys are the only option if they want to work with you or if they want that story, exactly.

Hassan Chaudhry: You kind of have to build that moat and that moat takes a lot of skill and craft. That's the strategy we've taken.

Jeff Umbro: I love it. The industry has changed. The model of like, what is profitable has changed. Most of podcasting today is just a bunch of independent studios working together. Independent studios like Blanchard House are partnering with the Wonderys or the Odysseys of the world to get their projects made.

Do you see that as the future? Are there multiple classes of creators out there where you have like independents working in the same sandbox as like a Blanchard House working in the same sandbox as like a SiriusXM or something?

Hassan Chaudhry: Because of the economics that are out, you know, that are just the reality today to stand up a highly journalistically driven, investigated, with good sound and music, which you know is important, and with like all of the makings, that is going to be really difficult for an individual to replicate. And so I think you're going to see more and more partnerships. With that said, my general belief in entertainment and especially in podcasting, it's a personality driven industry and it's being bifurcated a lot.

Now if you look at YouTube and what, like Instagram and TikTok. There are individual influencers and personalities that are able to build a business just onto themselves, right? So I think there's going to come a time where those things will merge. And the way that it'll merge is that this may be controversial to say, but I don't think podcasting should be a standalone industry, just like I don't think film should be a standalone industry.

Film is shrinking. However you want to cut it, it is a shrinking industry. People are going less and less to theaters, or they're being more selective, and studios just are not able to invest as much. And I think audio in some ways, like has gone through a bit of a rough patch and we're not producing as much as we would have two or three years ago. And Spotify, um, had its big boom. That's not a bad thing. What I'm getting at is you have to look at every medium as one avenue and actually work across mediums. If you have a podcast, you must have a social strategy. You must have a YouTube strategy. You must consider the film and TV route that it could go down.

Consider merchandising, right? If you are a film studio, you can't just put out a movie and hope that that's going to do it for you, right? They have windows. It goes to on demand. It goes to Netflix and HBO, and I think there are still DVDs, right? But they also, you need to market it on socials. You need to put it on YouTube.

Um, talent are still, right?

Jeff Umbro: You have to build the flywheel to bring people in.

Hassan Chaudhry: That's my world view is like podcasting. It's a near and dear industry to me, but I just think for it to exist and thrive, we have to broaden out across every type of show, branded narratives, talk, what have you.

Jeff Umbro: It's not what I thought you were going to say.

I appreciate that. I like it when I get surprised. What are the challenges of that ecosystem or that landscape? Is it just people being stretched too thin?

Hassan Chaudhry: Yeah, I think it's people being stretched too thin. I think we are in an ever more expensive economy and world, and the budgets are getting bigger and more difficult to sort of justify and sustain.

Jeff Umbro: And people are, want to spend less, but everybody who's making this stuff wants to charge more.

So.

Hassan Chaudhry: Exactly. And you know, the one thing that you can't mess with is the quality of it, right? You can, of course you can spend less and then do the best you can, but it will never be as high quality as if there was more resources behind it. So I personally think, and this is why I love what Blanchard does.

There is a space for high production value, investigative journalism, storytelling, but that has to be, you know, your strategy has to be broadened. And so we will continue to do what we do. We know that budgets are tighter. We know that it's a very competitive environment, right? People have so many choices to listen to.

We take that as a challenge and we say, okay, we're just going to find an even better story and get an even better hook. And hopefully through that, with our craft, we're able to cut through some of the noise and some of the competing things that people have at their fingertips and say, I know I will invest 35 minutes and listening to a story about the king of Bulgaria, because I think there's still an appetite for it.

Jeff Umbro: Well, it's so funny. And everybody who listens to the show must hate me at this point, because I say this, I feel like every episode, but there is an appetite for those shows. People want to listen to them.

Those are the shows that people are listening to. Yet the market has kind of dictated that a different kind of show is, is the thing that's going to get funded and made. It always inspires me to see orgs like Blanchard House, who are trying to buck that trend and continuing to move the way that they are in.

It can't be easy. I mean, you're kind of fighting against a curve right now, right?

Hassan Chaudhry: We are. We certainly are. And I think people will, like you said, they'll always want it and it's up to us. We have to increase our batting average. The pressure is on to make an even better show because it's so much harder out there and we have to figure out ways to get it in front of people.

But see, that is where if you look at, and I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that Blanchard House is HBO, but what HBO did after The Sopranos and people were, Oh, what, what's the next show going to be? And then came out Game of Thrones. And then after that, Oh, Game of Thrones, like, what are you going to do next? And then it's Succession and then it's Last of Us and it's White Lotus and it's so on and so forth, right? You have to always be 18 months ahead of the zeitgeist, a very overused word of just culture. That is who I think will survive and thrive and sort of, you know, the power law, right? Those are the people that will be on the, like the top end of the chart.

And so that's what we're striving for. And I think so far we're doing a pretty good job and it's consistency. We're going to have to continue giving audiences what they want.

Jeff Umbro: Until those movies get made and then you guys are golden.

Hassan Chaudhry: That's right. That's the ticket. Now that, that may take five years. So we'll do this again in five years and you can tell me how we're doing.

Jeff Umbro: I can't wait. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Hassan. This was awesome. This was a fun conversation.

Hassan Chaudhry: Yeah, it was great. Thanks so much for having me on.

Jeff Umbro: Thank you so much to Hassan Chaudhry for joining us on this episode of Podcast Perspectives. You can find him on LinkedIn at Hassan Chaudhry, and you can find Blanchard House at blanchardhouse.Com. For more podcast related news, info, and takes, you can follow me on Twitter @JeffUmbro, Podcast Perspectives is a production of The Podglomerate.

If you're looking for help producing, marketing, or monetizing your podcast, you can find us at Podglomerate.com. Shoot us an email at listen@thepodglomerate.com or follow us on all social platforms at Podglomerate or Podglomerate pods. This episode was produced by Chris Boniello, and myself, Jeff Umbro.

This episode was edited and mixed by Jose Roman. And thank you to our marketing team, Joni Deutsch, Madison Richards, Morgan Swift, Annabella Pena, and Vanessa Ullman. And a special thank you to Dan Christo and Tiffany Dean. Thank you for listening and I'll catch you all in two weeks.