Podcast Marketing 101 with The Podglomerate and The Webby Awards

Jeff Umbro: What secret sauce do podcasts from Netflix to PBS use to hit the top of the charts, reach target audiences, and win coveted awards? Whether you're interested in launching a podcast or want to scale up your current show's audience, today's episode is for you. Last month, the Poglomerate co hosted a special Podcast Marketing 101 webinar with the Webby Awards, the annual competition that has been named the internet's highest honor by the New York Times.

This virtual event was hosted by the Webby Awards general manager, Nick Borenstein. Who, fun fact, is also an award winning producer for the hit podcast, Missing Richard Simmons. And it featured Webby award winning judge and our very own SVP of Marketing and Audience Development, Joni Deutsch, who shared an exclusive look at the Poglomerate's tried and true playbook for optimized podcast publicity, marketing, cross promos, app features, and paid acquisition.

They also discussed the science of award submissions and how to strengthen your entry to increase the chances of bringing home a trophy. The entry period for the 2025 Webby Awards closes on February 7th, so be sure to get your entry in ASAP if you want to see your podcast recognized for being the best in its field.

Head to webbyawards. com where you can also learn more about becoming a Webby Awards judge. Tell them the Poglomerate sent you. So, without further ado, here is Podcast Marketing 101.

Nick Borenstein: Hello, everyone on the internet. Thank you so much for joining us today from all around the globe for Podcast Marketing 101.

I'm Nick Bornstein, the General Manager of the Webby Awards, and I'm really excited to welcome you to this very special event hosted in partnership with the Podglomerate. We have curated a really special virtual session focused on one of the most critical aspects of the podcast industry. Marketing. Now, the Webby Awards are the largest and most competitive global honor recognizing internet excellence, and podcasts are a huge part of our community.

I'm actually very proud to say I've experienced the honors firsthand as a Webby winner myself for producing Missing Richard Simmons several years ago before I joined the Webbys, but I've seen the real impact the award had on my career. Now, we'll talk about awards and their impact on podcasts and podcasters shortly, but It always starts with the content.

You know, creating a podcast is truly an art form, and how a podcast reaches and is marketed to an audience is its own art form as well. Fortunately, however, there are proven strategies to help connect your show or your brand with your ideal audience, and ultimately allow your career to blossom. But what is in the secret sauce of podcasts that climb the charts, reach their target listeners, and maybe even win a coveted Webby Award?

Well, here's how. That's what we'll dive into today. I'll be sitting down with Webby Award winner and Webby Academy member, Joni, Joni Deutsch, who's the SVP of marketing and audience development at the Podglomerate. And together we'll unpack the best tactics for growing and marketing your podcast. And afterwards, we'll open the floor for questions from you.

So please feel free to post them in the chat and we'll answer them after our conversation. Now, I do want to mention this is an exciting time for us at the Webbys as we celebrate our 29th annual season. Submissions are open, uh, so if you're considering entering your podcast, I highly recommend doing so before our final entry deadline on Friday, December 20th.

We'll drop a link in the chat on how to submit now. Uh, but if you didn't know, the Webby Awards are adjudicated by the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences. Which is a prestigious network of over 2, 000 creative, technical, and professional leaders that are really driving the internet forward.

Now, Joni, of course, is one of them, but if you, yes, you, are interested in judging podcasts for the Webby Awards, We'd really love for you to apply to join the Academy. We'll also share that link in the chat below. So now without further ado, I'm thrilled to introduce Joni Deutsch. And by way of introduction, Joni is a Murrow award winning audio professional and NPR veteran with 15 years of outstanding experience as a podcast producer, host, and marketing and audience growth specialist.

As mentioned, Joni is currently SVP of The Podglomerate, which is an award winning podcast. Podcasts, service, firm, focus on production, monetization, and marketing of outstanding podcast clients, including Netflix, PBS, NPR, the list is endless. And in addition to being a Webby Award winner, Joni, as mentioned, is also a proud Webby Awards juror, and her work has been featured by Bloomberg, The Verge, Adweek, and across numerous major podcasts and media conferences.

So, Joni, welcome.

Joni Deutsch: Nick, thank you so much for having me. And also, I gave you some tongue ties there in the bio. You did an

Nick Borenstein: amazing job getting all that out. Listen, I started the, I started the chat on mute, so it's only uphill for me. Um, but, but Joni, thank you so much for, for joining me. It's really such a pleasure to, to share this conversation with you.

And I know that this is really exciting for a lot of our community and, and thinking about podcasts. You know, I think a great place to start is maybe what you see as the most critical first step for podcasters just starting to think about growth.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I think if we've seen anything in recent months or years, it's that podcasting is continuing to act as a booming medium, right?

You're finding more listeners, you're finding more podcasters that are joining or making more episodes across countries, different languages, different genres. So it's a competitive environment. And for anyone that's wanting to create a show, or maybe you currently have one out there, and you're thinking to yourself, I want to get to the top of the charts.

I want everyone to listen to the show. I want immediate success right now. That's unrealistic, right? Maybe it could have been the case a decade ago when podcasting was in its infancy, quote unquote, before even serial joined the scene. Um, but nowadays there's just a lot going on and the attention of listeners is, you know, Pretty selective.

So I would just say for anyone, the first step is recognizing what your show is. As you mentioned, Nick, content is key here at the end of the day, but second of that is that marketing goes hand in hand. So knowing who your audience is, your ideal target audience, because at the end of the day, even the most popular shows in the world, let's say the Joe Rogans, the Colored Daddies, the Dailies, not everyone in the world listens to them.

A good chunk of the world does, but not every single person. So let's keep realistic expectations here of who is our target audience, and then we can figure out the best marketing techniques to really get to know them and have them become a fan of the show.

Nick Borenstein: Yeah, it's so true. And I think just with the proliferation of the media landscape, this idea of having colossal global success and You know, all these audience listeners I think is challenging and, you know, we'll talk about audience.

I'm so curious sort of how you're defining audience and how you're building them. But just thinking about sort of core principles, I mean, do you feel in addition to audience, are there certain defining core principles that exist in podcast marketing that we should just be thinking about?

Joni Deutsch: Yeah, absolutely.

Um, so for the Podglomerate, for those who may not be aware, we do marketing for a wide variety of shows and clients. As Nick mentioned, some of them are the top of the game, like the public media stations of the world, PBS, Netflix, um, and also institutions like Harvard or Stanford, HubSpot, even. Um, so whether a new show is launching or maybe it's a show that's been around for a while, there are certain things we have found have been so effective that can apply to really any kind of show, any kind of genre.

So if you will, there's five, although technically I'll say six pillars that we look at today, and I'll tell you why the sixth one is special specifically for this call. Um, one is that it's looking at your own Marketing your own vehicles that you already have attached to your name or property or business.

So, you know, if you have an email newsletter that you've already established prior to the podcast or social media channels, or maybe you have a brick and mortar, you know, we consider that in the marketing category of leverage what you already have available to you. That is naturally a built in audience.

Don't forsake that. And the second pillar is just publicity. So we have clients where, you know, we are looking at building up press kits. We are pitching them for interviews, interviews everywhere, or coverage everywhere. Maybe that's coverage in podcast media publications and trade outlets, or maybe that's specific to their genre of show.

So if it's maybe an arts and culture show, trying to get them featured in Variety or Entertainment Weekly or People Magazine, or interviewed on another comparable podcast. So that's the second pillar. Third pillar is cross promos, uh, which are one of my favorite things to talk about because they're super easy and free to do in most cases.

Find a comparable show out there and trade spots or audio with each other. So if you're working on a true crime show, find another true crime show. Exchange 30, 60 second spots or trailers or episodes, you'll find really great conversion rates from that. Fourth pillar, apps. So you should be on every podcast app out there, Apple, Spotify, Amazon, because if you are, then there's a possibility, if you think about it and you time your content to it, that you can pitch the show or the episodes for features in those apps for free carousel or collection opportunities.

And then a fifth opportunity is if you have paid spend budget, Look at advertising your show with ads on newsletters. Podcast apps in some cases or other podcasts, but the sixth pillar, I want to say is a special one for this webinar today is awards. You absolutely can look at submitting your show for a Webby award, a Signal award, an Ambi award.

There's so many out there. Of course, with the Webby's here, you naturally should. Um, but when you are able to get that and whether you're nominated or you win, you're That is something you can immediately put into your vehicle of marketing, so that way it shines a brighter light on the acclaim and prestige of your show and how you're able to bring more audience in the mix.

Nick Borenstein: This is really such a masterclass. I hope people are taking notes because this is, this is, I wish as I was an emerging podcaster that I was hearing these because I think it's so important and it is evolving, um, but it does often feel like it comes down to reaching audience and sort of understanding who that audience is, building that audience, Um, you talked kind of at the top about how sort of it's so important to understand who those people are, but what are the strategies that, you know, are most effective for podcasters to identify and reach these people, especially because it's such a crowded marketplace?

You know, do you have any thoughts on sort of what, what folk can be doing from brand new folks to middle folks to even folks that are more established?

Joni Deutsch: And I'm so glad you created that distinction because there is a tiny bit of difference between if maybe you're a show that's been around for a year or many years with many episodes to your name versus you haven't even released a trailer or an episode yet.

You maybe are in the ideation phase, you're about to launch. So for those that have been around for a while and you're just really wanting to get a better sense of who your audience is, naturally you already have an RSS feed. So that means you're on a hosting platform, or maybe you're signed up for, uh, you know, uh, services that can actually tell you, Hey, you have a thousand listeners.

Here's their demographic breakdown or where they live or how long they're listening to your episodes with episode consumption rates. So I'd recommend going into your hosting platform, whether that's Megafone or Simplecast, Art19, the list goes on, or you can just naturally go into your accounts on Apple Podcasts Connect.

Or Spotify for Creators, about a week or two ago, it was called Spotify for, um, uh, Podcasters. But, um, on either of those platforms, you can actually see specifically to Spotify or Apple or the like. Who are your listeners? What are they really doing with your show? Now, you also can look at platforms that you can pay for, like Podchaser.

If you pay for the higher tier subscription for that, Podchaser Pro, then you can actually look at competitor demographics and audience analytics of other shows. So if you maybe are a brand new show launching and you idolize, um, I don't know, The Daily or Fresh Air or another show, you can go to Podchaser.

And sign up for the subscription and then see based off what they're looking at with RSS feed pools, what the target audience is or the demographic breakdown of a competitor show. And then you may have a better sense then of, Oh, if my show is modeled after that with similar content. That might be my target audience, and those are the kinds of shows I can look to for cross promos, right?

To get my show on their radar, or maybe ad spend if you have a paid spend budget.

Nick Borenstein: And I know it's such a, it's such an interesting conversation, but like, how can podcasters get featured on Apple or Spotify? I know that's such a holy grail, and I know it's not the easiest thing to procure. I'm curious sort of what your strategies have been on that front.

On that front and, and what maybe the successes look like from doing that.

Joni Deutsch: Right. I mean, it is getting even more competitive nowadays, uh, for reference, Apple podcasts, if you go into the app or on your browser now, because they've made that accessible for non Apple users. Um, you can see that that prominent carousel of a few shows every week that's updated for feature purposes.

It is prime real estate. It is a billboard on that app to promote a show or a new episode. But. There's only so many of those slots. And so as more and more podcasts are being created and launching, that's even more of a chance that you're not going to be able to get it compared to someone else. So for the Podglomerate, we're proud to say we have a strong relationships with a lot of the editorial teams at these apps, from Apple Podcasts to Amazon Music to Spotify.

Spotify, Pocket Cast, and the like. So for us, it's simply our relationships and letting them know, Hey, we have a show coming up. We want to give you advanced notice, more than a week's notice to let you know of the show, its host, its prominence, uh, the guests that are going to be on the topics that will be addressed.

And even if our client. Whether it's their organization or they themselves, can help promote the podcast app on their channels. So that way, let's say if they do get a feature on Pocket Cast or another app, we can let that app know, Hey, we're so grateful for this and we're shining a light on you in X, Y, and Z ways with maybe this amount of audience seeing that we're promoting this specific app.

So I will say publicly, um, if you were to search Apple podcast, editorial features, or how to pitch. Spotify, you can find forms online to go ahead and submit your information for your episodes or guests or show launch. Now that mean that you'll get that feature? No, but it will get you on their radar. And if you hire someone like us at the Podglomerate with our key relationships, that will help add the element there, maybe a better chance of getting a feature.

Nick Borenstein: Well, and I think that like so much of this, it reminds me of this idea of credibility, right? Like how can you build credibility for a new show? And I think that that's, there's, there's many ways to do that. But I, I, I believe something that you're getting at is like relationships being an important part of this.

Joni Deutsch: Absolutely.

Nick Borenstein: You know, I imagine, you know, whether you're working with a podglomerate or you're, you're sort of an independent, you know, going to those conferences, being able to go to sessions like this, you know, networking, meeting other podcasters, but also, you know, executives who might be able to Highlight your work is important.

I mean, do you have any thoughts on sort of how to build those relationships? Uh, relationships are important in any industry, but I think in podcasting, they're particularly valuable.

Joni Deutsch: I absolutely love this topic. Uh, I've worked in audio and podcast and public radio for basically 15 years now. And the relationships that I grew at the start of my career are ones that I still hold dear today for collaborators.

Now even clients in some cases, uh, we live in a field where yes, it is competitive. There's a lot going on, but it's actually smaller than you think. And there's a very good chance that someone that you chat with today, whether maybe it's via LinkedIn chat or anything else, are individuals that in a few years time, they may be at a different podcast or media outlet or market.

But there's some way to be able to collaborate with them. So I would say for anyone here, even if maybe you're an introvert, I understand. I was once an introvert. Now I'm somewhere in between. It can feel a little daunting. It could feel like it's transactional. I'm here to tell you that if you put yourself out there in a way that's authentic, and if it's not one sided.

So if it's finding that someone in the audio space also has curly hair, that's something I bond with people all the time with, as you can probably imagine, or if it's that you both come from the same city or state, I come from Appalachia, I love connecting with others from West Virginia when I see that in their bio, or Or maybe it's that you legitimately love the work that they've done, and you just want to let them know how much you appreciate it.

That authentic spark can make a world of difference when you reach out as a cold caller to someone saying, Hey, you don't know me, but I really appreciate you. I'd love to connect. Do you have a few minutes to spare? Or if you simply just want to follow them on social media. Continue building the relationship.

It's just like with a flower, you can't just put a little bit of water at the start and then expect it to grow without any water for months to come. You just have to nurture it a little bit more and more. And again, find ways to assist them. Can you offer them something? Can you shine a light on them on your social media?

It makes a world of difference.

Nick Borenstein: I totally agree. And in my experiences, too, you know, especially in the audio community, it's an intimate community. I know it feels like there's probably a lot of podcasts being released because there are, but it is this really special community of makers, producers, executives, uh, engineers, right?

Like, so I think it is so important to build that relationship. And, you know, You know, I think this probably ties into this idea of cross promotion as well. I mean, often in my experience is cross promotion comes from having a relationship with another podcast or, you know, another host or, you know, an expert who maybe can come on and, and sort of Not only add a lot of great value to the content, but also help in cross promoting and marketing.

And, you know, I think it was very clear this year, Joni, that, you know, in the election cycle, podcast guests played such a key role, not just in the content, but also in marketing campaigns. I'm curious, like, how do you feel like podcasters should be considering collaboration partners? Um, but also how might one pitch themselves as a guest?

Joni Deutsch: And I'll also say too that, um, the reason I brought up marketing at the start of this call, marketing, the sense of knowing your own verticals, what do you currently have access to? Maybe you don't have a podcast feed right now, but you do have an email newsletter. You do have a social media channel. You do have maybe something physical, like an event series that you host every month.

Knowing what you have as a, let's say an audit of your current resources is key because then you know what you can work with so that it is a cross promo. It's not just a one way street. Um, so. I guess going back to the idea of relationship building, um, finding a show, maybe it's a show that is comparable with the genre that you make your show in, the audience type, maybe Millennials, uh, maybe from a certain city or a certain background, finding that comparable show, finding the specific person attached to that show.

Which again, Podchaser is great because they actually provide contact information for each show in that database. So again, really great there. Um, or you do a LinkedIn search, Google, Muckrack, Rocket Breach. And when you send that note to that person, make it clear. Look, I'm reaching out because I am working on a show that, uh, is, uh, aligned in the same kind of content and audience as your external show.

And I really would love to see if we could do a cross promo. Cross promos can take the form of. Anything really. So maybe it's a one to one audio swap exchange where you each provide 30 to 60 seconds worth of talking points for each other to record. Maybe it's pre produced. You send them the audio, you, they send you their audio.

That's easier. Maybe it's a trailer drop. Maybe it's a feed drop where you each take episodes, um, or a guest swap, Nick, as you were just mentioning. So the guest of, or the host of one shows a guest on the other and vice versa, or with your marketing channels. If you don't have a podcast right now, you could trade with your email newsletter.

So you promote them on your email newsletter with a podcast spot or a link to the podcast in exchange their podcast fee promotes maybe your upcoming launch at a later date. So it's staggered. Again, you can be creative with this. The one thing I'll say though, is that at the end of the day, when it comes to marketing or audience growth strategies, it's It's one thing to be creative with an idea.

It's another thing to reach your goals and knowing your audience or analytics attached to it. So tracking is important. Otherwise, how will you know if you reach the goal post? So there are platforms out there, Magellan, PodTrack. I would say Chartable, but that's going away in about a week's time. But these platforms can actually provide pixels or attribution links for you to be able to track how you're succeeding and your audience conversion.

So I'd encourage everyone here. Make sure that when you do these cross promotional or marketing tactics, it's not just putting something out there and not knowing the results. Track your progress.

Nick Borenstein: Yeah. I think that's so smart and so important to be thinking about the data as well. Do you have a, I'd love maybe just to hear your thoughts on why cross promotion can be such a key growth strategy.

I mean, you may not think, you know, leaning on another show that might be smaller, or, you know, maybe leaning or doing cross promotion with a show that feels slightly different than yours may be helpful, but it really can be helpful to sort of, you know, Spread awareness, and I think that is an important flavor here, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on why cross promotion has become such a key growth strategy for so many.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah, you know, a common question that we receive or note from, um, folks is, well, that's my competitor. You know, why would I want to do a cross promotion with someone that's doing the kind of same show I am or bringing on the same sort of guests? Um, shouldn't I just be doing my own thing in my own, like, silo and they do theirs?

And I understand the sentiment there, right? Sometimes it's easier to just simply do your own thing and not have two things mixed. But at the same token What we found, and we found this through data, so as tracking the data of doing these cross promotions over and over again over the years across a wide variety of shows and clients, is that cross promos work, and when you target them, when you can really personalize a script for an external host to read, promoting the show, bringing out points that are relevant to their specific audience, it makes a world of difference with conversion rates.

So I would say here that with cross promos, you know, if you are able to, you know, try an experiment, right, maybe you feel a little uncomfortable with it, but let's try one time with one show or one external entity doing a cross promo. And then after that cross promo takes place. Look at the results on your analytics dashboard or your podcast hosting platform and see if there's going to be a spike within a seven, maybe 30 day period after that cross promo takes place.

I think you'll find that you can reinvest that effort into doing more and more of it, especially because these efforts are free. So if you're starting out with zero paid spend budget or advertising budget, this is a really easy way. To just continue to grow your show time over time, because when an external host is reading something, promoting your show, if audiences love that host, they're going to follow that host's recommendation to another show.

Podcast listeners like listening to more than one podcast. It makes sense.

Nick Borenstein: Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, one beautiful thing about crowd promo is that it's often, there's no exchange of money. It's, it's a free campaign that you can employ, but. You know, paid acquisition can also be a very powerful, yet often tricky tool.

Um, I'm curious, how can podcasters, you know, in the paid space, ensure that if they are putting money or dollars towards something, that they get the most ROI from a paid campaign, and maybe talk about what some of those, And that's what paid campaigns can look like.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah. Well, I, and for reference for everyone here, um, cross promos are great.

I would encourage everyone to try some type of cross promo with an external entity, but sometimes you might be a small show, right? Maybe you don't have a hundred or a thousand or six figures worth of downloads to your name. But you want to do a cross promo with a show or entity that is established, that has that amount, and they only want to look at really large scale growth on their side, and that's understandable.

So cross promo may not work here, but if you have a paid spend budget, so let's say you have a thousand dollars or a few thousand dollars, maybe just a few hundred dollars, that's a way that you can then go to that external podcast, the bigger show, uh, let's say the How I Built This Other World, and say, hey, look, Guy Raz.

You don't want to do a cross promo, or you can't because you're focused on larger cross promo initiatives. Understood. But if I have a budget to pay for your time and energy to read a script, would that work? Now again, inventory is key. Sometimes you need to think of these in advance. So it can't just be, Hey, Guy Raz, record this tomorrow.

It's just not the case. But paid spend can be very valuable. Um, so I would just say here that even if it's a few hundred dollars, you can put that to good use. It doesn't have to be in a podcast feed. There are podcast apps. Pocketcast is one of them. Podcast Addict, Overcast, where if you want to have an ad of your show run in a podcast app, or podcast listeners are, right?

That's a great way to grow it in a cost effective way. But of course, there's other things. Email newsletters comparable to your target audience or content type. Um, if you want to do billboards physically in person, you can, but again, I just encourage everyone here. Think of where your podcast audience naturally is.

And naturally they're going to be either in a podcast feed listening to a show or podcast app listening to the podcast. Those two are going to be key if you have a paid spend budget.

Nick Borenstein: Yeah. Now we are the Webby Awards. I'd be remiss if I didn't talk a little bit about, you know, number six on your, on your key tent poles.

And something that I've experienced, you've experienced sort of the power of awards. And you know, Webby's are one of the most competitive and important awards in the podcasting landscape. And. I guess I'm curious from your perspective, I mean, how have you seen awards and that could be a win, you know, you could win a Webby or you could be nominated for a Webby.

You could also be honored by the Webbys. Mm-hmm . Um, how do those play a role in audience growth, you know, marketing strategy? Um, I'm curious from your perspective as both a winner. a judge, and also someone who works very closely with, with a lot of podcast producers.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah. I mean, look, podcast awards are, um, still a new and growing thing, right?

Um, compared to, let's say the Emmys and the Oscars that have been around for decades and decades, because that media, those types of media have been around longer. So what are ways in which we can really, um, legitimize our field, show that there's, you know, And there's a lot of great shows out there that deserve to receive a spotlight.

A podcast award can do a lot of those things all in one go. So, with certain clients that we have, you know, if they have a budget, we're obviously very happy to utilize that paid spent budget towards award submissions like the Webbys. And it's been a great process. I mean, I will say that for our clients that either are nominated or honored or winners of an award, You know, they immediately put that back into their publicity cycle with our help.

So as soon as we hear that they're honored or that they're nominated, we immediately start letting the podcast apps know in our pitches and conversations with them. We start including that as scripting in our cross premise scripts or paid spend advertising scripts or pitches. And we're also putting that in the podcast feed, letting listeners know, Hey, We appreciate you.

You're a part of this vehicle and that we want you to know that, you know, whatever happens next, please stay tuned because this show is on the up and up. And honestly, sometimes it builds credibility in a different way. So if you're an interview podcast or a panel show, if you're wanting to bring on guests, And maybe there's a certain sticky celebrity guest that you'd love to have on your show, but there keeps telling you, no, I can't be on it.

You coming back to them and say, Hey, now we're nominated or, Hey, we just won this big award. We're the best in the podcast game. That can make a difference. So it just continues to add up over and over. Um, so again, there's so many ways you can make a podcast award, win or honor into your marketing campaign to grow your show even further.

Nick Borenstein: Totally. And, you know, in our experiences, you know, we, we've done a lot of surveying of our community and we found that about 80 percent of Webby winners and Webby recognized, you know, members of our community have said that they have brought forth new business as a result of their Webby meeting, which allows them to bring in potential sponsors, new guests.

It allows them to also potentially be part of other shows and other projects. And then that was pretty much my experience, you know, at Topic Studios when we launched Missing Richard Simmons. It was one of our first podcasts and it allowed us as a burgeoning podcast studio to sort of say, Hey, wow, we won a Webby and we have that sort of credibility to bring in new partners, new creative, new IP, um, more creatives were excited to work with us.

And so, um, I think that, that we have found, and I know that you have found this in your work and with the clients you work with, but the ability to then make the Webby Award a part of their core brand, excellence. Becomes a part of who they are, you know, there was these great podcasters last year called the best one yet.

I don't know if you know them, T Boy. Oh, absolutely, yeah. They're great. They won last year for best business podcast. And because their weekly business show they also leveraged it to create another business product. That was in their bio, it was in their pitch decks, um, and it allowed them to build something new off of, you know, their, their momentum.

And I do think that, and I'm curious for your thoughts on this too, but you do have to really be strategic about your awards and thoughtful about what you're submitting to, what we'll have. And what you want to do after that, you know, because I think the Webby Award is so special. And of course you come to the Webby show and you have such great networking opportunities.

You know, Lisa Kudrow is behind me. That's Prince's guitar up there. You can really rub elbows with some amazing fellow creatives, but it does require you to also be thoughtful about what, what does this mean for you? What are you going to do now?

Joni Deutsch: Yep. And I think just even going back to the thoughtfulness, it starts at the very beginning with submissions, right?

Because in the case of the Webbys, there are so many different categories that you can submit your show to on a show level, episode level, craft, if you're doing it on behalf of yourself as a host, or maybe the sound or the writing. So it goes back even to what I said earlier, which is, you know, when you're thinking of your show, it's more than just you throwing out all these different ideas.

It's being strategic. It's knowing, look, if I see these categories and I know that there's lists on the website of who previously were nominated or winning of these categories in the past few years, let me check out those category shows and figure out how I. Relate to them. If I have relevance to them, if maybe if it's a super competitive category, because I know that Conan O'Brien is going to win for the 20th time, maybe I shouldn't go for that category because the options of me winning or the opportunities may be slim because of other celebrity or other show types.

So maybe I go for a more niche category, the individual episode one or craft, and that's still relevant to my brand and what I'm doing. But there's more of an opportunity because I can see that, hey, it's less inundated. So again, it goes to the very start of the submission process. And then at the very end of how can I network with others that are attending this live event for the awards reception, or how can I utilize this in our materials in a creative way?

Um, you know, I would just say to everyone here, Don't count yourself out, look at the categories, look at ways that make the most sense to you, and try to see if there's a way that for 2024, or for 2025 I should say, you can be a part of this process.

Nick Borenstein: Totally. And then I really do encourage those of you who are considering it or thinking about it, you know, our final entry deadline is December 20th.

And, um, you know, we, we really love the creators that we see every year. And, you know, that ranges from global brands and, and sort of, you know, Big named, um, podcasters to Emerging Podcasters. You know, we have several independent podcasting categories that are really targeting folks who are not Conan O'Brien, , you know, those who are really creating this amazing work that is reaching people on niche levels.

And, um, you know, of course I hope that everyone here submits and wins or is recognized by the webs at some point. But, you know, it is, it is a process, of course, to have your work adjudicated. We also have a global public vote, which is very special, where the global internet community can vote if you're nominated for your podcast.

But I'm curious, Joni, as a member of our academy, um, what do you think makes a podcast stand out in awards? You know, how can, how can podcasters, when they are submitting or considering submitting, strengthen the work that they're submitting for their entry?

Joni Deutsch: Sure. And I'll say this too. I've, in addition to the Webby's, I've been a juror for a number of other audio and media awards of the years, from the Murrow's to the Online Journalism Awards and the like.

So definitely have a lot of experience listening to a lot of great audio content. And I truly mean that. There's a lot out there. Um, but the ones that stick out to me are one, the ones that are relevant to the category that they're submitting to. If I find that the show submitted to a category that doesn't make sense, sadly, that naturally kicks them out of it.

And I can't really move forward with it if it's not hitting the guidelines of what was asked for it. So relevance key, make sure you really see what's a good fit for your show or brand. Second to that is just the unique value of it and how well it's constructed, right? At the end of the day, I. Do you need to hear the audio if I can judge it?

So making sure that the audio example you're providing and submitting or examples, plural, are representative of your show. And also, you know, just at the very least able to be, you know, heard and understood, um, but appreciated. Is it representative of who you are and the kind of show that you can say proudly in the future?

I'm award winning. I am part of the industry in a large and impactful way. Um, but again, unique. Surprise me. Find something that is going to break through the noise of a lot of other submissions that come through where they all sound the same. They all have the same format. What is something that's unique to you that shows how you're making an impact in your community or audience?

Again, some of these things are vague, but I think once you get into the process, you'll see what that means. And I will say this, on the Podglomerate's website, which is podglomerate. com, we actually have a blog. And if you go to that blog, we have a post about how to position yourself and strengthen your awards entry.

So we'll share a link to that in the LinkedIn chat, but it's something that might be helpful for the folks here if you need some additional inspiration.

Nick Borenstein: I love it. When I, you know, we, we often hear, and I hope this has been your case, Joni, that, you know, being a part of an academy like the Webbys, uh, it's really inspiring.

I mean, there's an opportunity to also see how other people are making great work. Absolutely. You know, it's, it's exciting to sort of be able to see how other people are, are, are playing in the podcasting space, the stories that they're telling. And, um, again, I just wouldn't say if any of you here today are working in podcasting and are interested in judging podcasts at the Webby Awards, um, we'd be very excited to consider you and bringing your experience.

So please do consider applying and joining, joining Joni, um, as a member of our Academy. Uh, again, I believe that that should be in the chat already, but. You know, I guess sort of as a concluding question, Joni, and I know we already have some great questions from the audience, but, um, you are consulting with so many great voices from, you know, the Netflixes of the world, to cultural institutions, to emerging podcasters.

What is one piece of advice that you would give them? to set up for long term success. And I'll caveat this. If it's helpful to do success at each of those levels, we can do that as well. But it's something that you've seen in your 15, 20 years of experience.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll say this. Um, it also is dependent on the genre.

Because every genre is a little bit different. So it's not even just the level of, are you a show that hasn't even launched yet to a show that's been around for a bit and a show that's been around a long time within those categories. It's also, you know, what is the genre of your show at large? You know, what are the goals of your show?

What's the type of audience that you're trying to reach and even just your budget and your timeline. So for example, I would say that if podcast out there, Go find other true crime podcasts and collaborate with them in some way, whether that's a guest swap or a cross promo exchange. True crime podcasts convert amazingly, so don't feel like you have to just do things on your own.

Find other people in the space. You can go to, you know, listicles that list out all kinds of true crime shows out in the world. Find those shows, connect with them on social media, send them an email. Find a way to convert or to cross promote with them. But that's a specific idea for one type of show. So I would just say at large, if you're a brand new show or you're about to be a brand new show, I would just take it from a perspective of you are probably a one person team.

You may not have a lot of time or bandwidth or budget. So what is the one thing that you can do consistently each week to help grow your show? If that's sending pitches to the apps or sending pitches to other podcasts, If you're a big business owner or trying to coordinate cross promos, in addition to getting your show out consistently, just hit that goal every week.

And if you're a bigger show with maybe bigger budgets, I would say invest in bigger capabilities. Make sure that you're on a hosting platform or utilizing attribution services that actually will give you great data that will give you the ability to track your data. And that may cost a little bit more money for you, but in the long run that's what you're going to need if you need to scale up your show's success.

Nick Borenstein: Amazing. Well, uh, this has been amazing and I'm so grateful for all these great insights and I thank you for, for sharing these with us. It feels like we're getting a peek behind the curtain in a very exciting way. Um, I do want to, uh, sort of offer a couple of questions from the audience. Um, the first one being about any advice on marketing a limited narrative series.

As opposed to a talk show that has many more episodes, uh, there's a shorter time to build hype. So thank you, Amelia, for that question.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah, so with the limited narrative series, which I take to mean, um, maybe it's a five to eight episode run, released weekly perhaps, uh, so it's not always on show, if you will.

Um, Even though there's a shorter timeline for it being out in the world actively, right? So maybe it's only eight weeks rather than a full year's worth of content. That doesn't mean that you can't prep in advance, right? So let's assume that you pretty much have all the episodes ready. They're in the can.

They're ready to be released. Let's look at the timeline for you releasing it, right? Let's say it can be timed to a certain calendar event coming up. So let's say it's a narrative show that's about climate change. Every year, usually, there is a national climate summit that takes place called COP. Usually it's in the fall, around November.

Do you want to maybe align your show's launch to the month in or around that major climate event? Because a lot of publications and outlets and podcast apps are going to be curating coverage or even lists of podcasts focused on that sort of genre or content. So, Making sure that your editorial calendar actually aligns with a marketing or publicity calendar is key.

If you just give yourself enough time and bandwidth to really consider, should I release in April? Should I release in the summer? Should I release it in the fall? So that's one thing that can help you there. Um, but otherwise I would just say looking at what the pitchability is for each of those episodes.

Are there maybe guests or talking heads you're bringing in that are prominent in their fields? If so, can you pitch maybe a week or two in advance of each episode drop the individuals or writers that have covered that guest's content or background to let them know, Hey, this limited run series is launching soon.

This person that you featured previously is going to be on it. It's talking about X, Y, and Z points. Would you like to listen to embargoed audio in advance of that episode drop? Would you like to cover or feature or even talk to me about it? Little things like that can make a whole lot of difference.

Nick Borenstein: Amazing. I hope to hear this limited narrative series. This sounds special. Um, there's another great question that I think is just important to say. It's coming from Rachel about expanding on knowing your audience. And I think that's a really important thing because what does that mean sometimes to sort of know who your audience is?

know who you're talking to. Maybe you can share a little bit more, Joni, on what it means to understand your audience and how to find out who they are.

Joni Deutsch: Sure. I know your audience can be in any different direction. It could be knowing them in the sense of, uh, similar to me, Nick, if you ask me, Joni, who are you?

The first things out of my head are going to be, well, I'm Joni. I'm insert H here. I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina. I like X, Y, and Z subjects. I have a dog, I have a baby. And, uh, you know, I. do podcasting and media for a living, you know, that's how I describe myself, but the audience may be a little bit different than that.

Maybe they'll focus more so on, you know, their faith. Maybe it's on their community initiatives or organizations they're attached to. Maybe it's more so on their education, you know, if they're a proud alumni of a certain university or school. So again, everyone's identity is different. So, I would just say that if your goals are to know, you know, the age bracket of your audience, because maybe that ties into their social media patterns, and if you should be on Twitter versus TikTok versus Facebook versus Blue Sky, then, you Maybe if you're a pre existing show, you create a little Google form or a survey monkey, fill it out with questions of, you know, who are you?

What is your age range? Where are you from? Basic questions like that. Which social media platforms are your favorite? And then ask your listeners, Hey, Can you fill this out for me? It takes five minutes. I'd really appreciate it. It gets me to know a little bit more about who you are. Now, again, you can know your audience if you're preexisting show, if you actually have a show, because you can go into the demographic information on a podcast hosting platform, but maybe you haven't launched a show yet.

You can still do a survey. Just give it to a target audience that you think is your target audience in the future and have them fill it out. And then cater your content to what they're telling you, what their favorite shows are, what their favorite types of media are. That can help inform your marketing plan.

Nick Borenstein: Awesome. Uh, keep the questions coming, y'all. These are great. I'm just seeing them in the chat, but we'll, we'll try to get to as many of them as we can. Um, Dave has a great question, um, that I'm very excited to hear your perspective on, which is, uh, speaking to the importance of video versus audio podcasts, um, offering both to build audiences.

You know, we have Um, video podcast categories at the Webby Awards. It's been really exciting to sort of see also that sort of evolution from audio to video, video to audio. You know, folks posting now to YouTube. Obviously Spotify for creators is now doing a big push with video. Mm-hmm . Um, I'd love Joni to hear your thoughts on, on sort of the video versus, or video and audio podcast format.

Joni Deutsch: Look, I'm not gonna be the person to say that podcasting and audio is the only way to go, because to be honest. 15 years ago, when I was starting my media career, I was downloading podcasts onto my iPod, which for anyone who had one of those like me, kudos to you, uh, that were video podcasts, just as much as they were audio only feeds.

So I still listen slash watch video podcasts on YouTube today. Well, not today. I'm on the webinar, if you will, but you know what I mean. So I would just say for anyone here that's thinking, Oh gosh, video podcasting, that's becoming the new thing. Do I need to dedicate time and resources to that when I'm just trying to get the audio podcast out there daily or weekly?

Yes, video podcasting can be helpful, especially when for SEO or search optimization purposes. Um, by you putting yourself on YouTube, which is one of the biggest places for SEO in the world. That means that it's getting your title, your show information out for potential wider audience for awareness. So it is helpful in small ways.

If there's a way for you to simply put the audio up with. um, just a very static image, perhaps the podcast artwork on YouTube. At least that's a starting point for you to get into the video podcast space. Um, I will say there are a lot of platforms that can make it easy for you to do audio and video all at once.

So whether that's something like Squadcast or maybe something like Riverside, you can do that fairly affordably. Um, but at the end of the day, I think the question is. Will your content really need to be on video as well as audio? Does it serve a purpose by being on video? Um, because as you can probably tell, anyone can do video, anyone can do audio, but does it need to be both, or does it really cater to the audience or the content type or story When it's on one versus the other and experiment and see, ask the audience that they prefer one or the other or both.

But I think you'll find that in most cases, you don't need to be everywhere all at once, otherwise you're going to probably drive yourself crazy because you're like a tentacled octopus. Can you really spin all those plates at the same time? Probably not.

Nick Borenstein: I'm curious, just as a follow up, do you find that video is more prevalent for certain genres of podcasts, like chat, and I mean, are you finding that it's like in certain spaces, but not in others?

Joni Deutsch: Yeah. In fact, I would say we're still in the chat cast category. So for those that are, let's say, uh, you're a host, you're, uh, you know, having, talking with a guest or it's a panel discussion, right? Those are ones where it naturally lends itself to a video medium, because, you know, at the end of the day, it's two people or more than that on microphones, chatting and hanging out.

Makes sense. It's fairly easy to edit. If it were, on the other hand, a narrative, limited run series, as our questioner just asked us about a bit ago, um, I mean, that's basically a movie or a television show. If you're getting video that lines up to that audio, In that way, so I think for the cost of just sanity, not to mention budget and time and staff, usually the easiest thing on YouTube or video podcasting is just simply people talking to a microphone, occasionally laughing with backdrops, like what you see behind us.

But again, is it worthwhile? That's really a question for everyone out there. You need to decide based off your content type.

Nick Borenstein: Yep. Um, I'd like to move on to another question from Liz about sort of free or inexpensive strategies other than cross promotion that, you know, can work on growing audience in a meaningful way.

Joni Deutsch: Oh, and actually I know Liz because we went to high school together. So thanks for being here, Liz. I love seeing your name pop up. Um, and, um, yeah, Yes. So also love this question too, Liz. Um, there are tons of free and inexpensive strategies. Uh, one of which is the cross promo idea. So again, finding a comparable show or email newsletter or social media feed.

It doesn't have to be audio necessarily, and just asking them, Hey, I, you know, I'd love to do this collaborative effort with you. I'll promote your element or item or media. If you do the same for me, No money needs to be exchanged. We found this to be a great way to convert audience. Or you can just simply say, Hey, some woman named Joni Deutsch told me is great.

Let's do it because she said so. She's an expert. Um, but cross promos are number one. Uh, you know, I would also say too, just again, podcast app features. Uh, even though we represent a lot of clients where we're naturally putting out their names and information to podcast apps. For editorial features. Uh, I know of some shows that without any representation, no marketing team or budget at their disposal, they have gotten features without even contacting the apps.

So again, make sure that your show is on the apps that feature shows naturally. And if you don't know for sure, if your show's there. Go to Apple Podcasts or the app in question. Do a quick search for your title. See if it's there. If it's not, go to a website that will go ahead and plug it in for you or your hosting platform.

Um, but just find content that really resonates. Um, think of it topically. If you're getting into Valentine's day for February, do you want to go ahead and maybe plan out some Valentine's day or romance or relationship content and have it released in February? That would be a great thing is. Podcast apps are trying to figure out what to curate in those collections focused on those themes.

So again, being a little strategic, that can be free, but getting a feature on an app can make a world of difference to some.

Nick Borenstein: Well, and, and I think a good question from Christine is around, you know, what services do you feel are worth the cost for independent podcasters? Whether it's editors, you know, SEO, assist programs, like where, where do you feel like it's worthwhile, um, putting forth that budget?

I, of course, will always say. On the award side, but I'm curious also just what, where else do we feel like these are worth the cost for these independents?

Joni Deutsch: Like at the end of the day, audio, the content should come first. So whatever you need to make sure that your content is, uh, is good sounding, is quality, uh, has a story to it, it, you know, is why you've gotten into this media to begin with because you could have easily picked blogging or, you know, going on as like a video influencer.

So, uh, Why audio? Why did you choose this intimate medium to tell the story? Invest in that first and foremost. Um, but for marketing purposes and other platforms relevant to that, gosh, I mean, I know I mentioned Podchaser, P O D C H A S E R being a great one, uh, for a variety of reasons. It can tell you chart rankings for shows.

It can tell you contact information for podcast representatives and editorial leads, uh, demographic information for competitors. Um, that's a great one, but I would also say there's ones like SEO optimization. We have friends of OSHA, that's A U S H A. That is their full line of work basically, is how to optimize your podcast title and episode descriptions and information so that in podcast apps, Podcasts are going to be easily found, right?

So that's a great platform as well. But I'd also say to you for visual purposes, whether it's the artwork of your show or episode specific artwork, because a lot of podcast apps love featuring episode specific artwork and not everyone does that for their episodes. Or even just video clips. Um, there's certain platforms, whether it's Descript or if it's Canva, C A N V A, which whether you get it for the very base, uh, free account or maybe slightly costlier one, those are great to have on hand.

So that way you can be your own visual designer and to create things for your social media, your website, or even the podcast visuals on the podcast app.

Nick Borenstein: What about any products for collecting podcast analytics and getting them all in one place? That was a question that was asked as well, just because the data can be so scattered.

Joni Deutsch: Yeah. And to be honest, uh, it, it's not only scattered, but it is, uh, interpreted differently across each platform. Because. Yeah. The way that Apple Podcasts, for example, refers to a follower or a download or episode consumption or completion is slightly different than Spotify, which is slightly different from the NPR podcast app, which is slightly different from so on and so forth.

So when you do have a podcast hosting platform, whether that is, again, Megaphone. or Lipson, Simplecast, Art19, Omni, um, and again, list goes on. There's other ones that are a little bit more affordable, like Podbean or, um, uh, Blueberry. Um, you know, that hosting platform basically brings all the data together to try to create some consistency.

So, I would say that maybe starting out for podcasters, you may not want to go for the one podcast hosting platforms that are very expensive, because again, you're testing the waters. You're seeing if this is a good fit for you, if you want to continue investing in this medium for yourself, but maybe over time, maybe once you've released a few episodes or a season or a year's worth of content, invest in a hosting platform that gives you more robust analytics.

Um, cause that's really going to do you. Good or better if you really want to grow your show at large. But again, in addition to hosting platform. If you're able to, the budget for it, a platform like Magellan, M A G E L L A N, or PodTrack, P O D T R A C, are going to be also great, because those are the tracking elements, the pixels, those cookies, that you can place into external platforms or parties, so that way you're able to see the conversion from those entities, whether paid or earned promotions, back to your podcast feed.

And then you can say, well, is that actually the audience I was trying to gather to bring to me, or do I need to change my strategy?

Nick Borenstein: Uh, and then I think we probably have time for one last question. Um, I will share Diana's question, which is, what types of partnerships do you recommend with schools and colleges?

I know you work with Harvard and a lot of institutions.

Joni Deutsch: I love that. And I, the reason I just gasped is that, um, You know, at the end of the day, a podcast listenership is, is something that it extends beyond just someone listening for fun. It is also insightful, inspiring, it's educational. So for those that are wanting to collaborate in ways that would be with educational institutions, uh, or even public media stations for broadcast purposes, it's, it warms my heart because, you know, we, we aren't just working.

Alone. Like we can work together in so many ways to grow listenership and content. So anyways, sidebar. Um, yeah, I would say in this case, if you are in a certain city or state where maybe you're creating content that's focused on that region, naturally, I would recommend reaching out to the colleges or universities in that region that you're already doing content around.

'cause then it's gonna make sense for them to do something with you, right? Whether it's funding joint sponsorships or, uh, grants that you can apply to together. Grant programs. Love it when you're able to say that you're working in collaboration with a higher ed institution. They love that. So, again, find what's local to you and reach out.

Maybe it's also local to your background. So, if you're an alumni at a certain University, That also just creates that relationship and that affinity. Uh, but, um, you know, I'd also say too, if you're looking to collaborate with students, uh, maybe there's a journalism school in the area or another state. Um, or maybe one that's focused on podcasting.

Some podcast programs are popping up in universities across the nation. I believe Syracuse has one, if not Athens University in Ohio. Uh, See if maybe there's a way to create an internship program or get volunteers from students to assist with the creation of the show in some way, as long as they get credit, of course.

Yeah, lots of ideas. I say just reach out to professors or admin first and see where you go from there.

Nick Borenstein: Amazing. Well, Joni, I want to send a big thank you to you for joining us today. It's been such a pleasure having you and Uh, for those who are interested in learning more about her or the Podglomerate, please go to thepodglomerate.com. Uh, you can also subscribe to their series, Podcast Perspectives, for even more expert insights into the ever evolving podcast industry. Uh, and I hope that those of you who are here today, you'll, you'll consider joining Joni and applying for the Webby Awards Academy. Um, it's a really amazing community of podcast producers and leaders and, No doubt some of you would make incredible additions to this group.

And, um, of course you can learn more about the Academy and also submit your podcast this season to the Webby Awards at webbyawards. com before our final entry deadline on December 20th. Um, it's worth mentioning that we do offer select scholarships as well to those making non commercial work. Um, so, you know, feel free to reach out to, to my team and my colleague Evy, Evy at the Webby Awards.

webbywards.com. We'll put that in the chat as well if you're interested in learning more. Um, and of course, feel free to connect with Joni or myself on LinkedIn as well. But until then, thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you on the internet.

Joni Deutsch: Thanks, everyone.

This transcript was generated using automated transcription software and may contain general errors.